Comment on Entry: $6 Trillion National Debt - Chump Change, authored by warrenpeterson
1. Most estimates come between 60 and 80 trillion in unfunded mandates. Of that 25 trillion is promises made to our vets, which there is no money set aside to pay for. The "real" national debt is around 11 trillion at this time, including all the money borrowed from the Social Security lock box..... Not counting of course the 6 to 8 trillion "loaned" to the banks by the fed, which the tax payers may never see a dime of.

One thing is for sure. The Wall Street Bankers bonuses will be paid as usual. All with your, and my children's money.

Smell something rotten anyone?

Posted by All Facts Support My Positions at December 1, 2008 08:17 PM
2. Most accounts I have read put the national debt at 11 trillion before this bailout fiasco started and now anywhere from 2-7 trillion more than where we started the year.

We are at a tipping point where soon the world will realize our money is worthless. That is when the real consequences of the Bush/Clinton/Bush/Reagan/Carter/Ford/Nixon policies come to roost.

Too bad the GOP had to ridicule Paul instead of at a minimum listening to him (of course I would have prefered they nominate the man but would have been happy if they would have at least listened!!!)

Posted by Lysander at December 1, 2008 08:30 PM
3. The USA: the Argentina of the Northern Hemisphere.

Posted by Tomas de Torquemada at December 1, 2008 08:31 PM
4. Wait until two years from now, with Obama's Change, you won't have any change in your pockets at all.

Posted by gs at December 1, 2008 08:37 PM
5. One thing is for sure. The Wall Street Bankers bonuses will be paid as usual. All with your, and my children's money. -Posted by: All Facts Support My Positions on December 1, 2008 08:17 PM

As previously and deviously distributed by the likes of Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, Chuck Shumer...

And they now want to bail out the auto UNIONS?

Yes, the UNIONS because they control and have destroyed the formerly big 3.

Take-home wages at the U.S. car makers average $28.42 an hour, according to the Center for Automotive Research. That's on par with $26 at Toyota, $24 at Honda and $21 at Hyundai. But include benefits, and the picture changes. Hourly labor costs are $44.20 on average for the non-Detroit producers, in line with most manufacturing jobs, but are $73.21 for Detroit.

This $29 cost gap reflects the way Big Three management and unions have conspired to make themselves uncompetitive -- increasingly so as their market share has collapsed. Over the decades the United Auto Workers won pension and health-care benefits far more generous than in almost any other American industry. As a result, for every UAW member working at a U.S. car maker today, three retirees collect benefits; at GM, the ratio is 4.6 to one.

Screw em.

Let the auto industry declare bankruptcy and come back reorganized without the job killing millstone known as UNIONS.

AND... if I were one of the foreign car makers, I would not hire even ONE former union member.

It's time to let them sink under the weight of their own greed.

Posted by Ragnar Danneskjold at December 1, 2008 09:03 PM
6. Go ahead Ragnar. Blame the unions. Just like your programming tells you...... unions.... unions....

I am sure it is the unions that decided to build gas hogs instead of modernizing, building 50 mpg hybrids, like all those cars on back order over at Toyota.

Blaming the Unions for Detroit's downfall is like blaming gays for Katrina.

Go ahead and print all those totally discredited numbers too. Quote that laughable article. Then ask yourself how hard you want to run in your race to the bottom.

If people like you were in charge we would all be scratching a living on Wal Mart wages, and a few people would be trillionaires, telling the "workers" where to stand, and when to sit.

Like you are blaming democrats. The ones who can't even get Bernacke to tell them who he gave how much money to, and what toxic assets he bought with all those trillions.

You are dishonest to the core aren't you Ragnut? If it wasn't for dishonesty, and lies, wingnuts wouldn't have anything to say. Ever.

Unions destroyed the big three. Only in a kool aid world. Man, you are one sick puppy Raggy.

Posted by All Facts Support My Positions at December 1, 2008 09:28 PM
7. By the way Ragnar. You better pray your ass off the DEMOCRATS save our country from the damage the Bush Crime Family, and his GOP slimeball friends have inflicted.

You can pretend the problems facing America ON EVERY FRONT were caused by Democrats. Just like the world is flat, up is down, and slavery is freedom.

Still have your house? Your health care? Your job? Your retirement?

If you said yes 4 times you're luckier than the millions of hard working Americans that just got the American Dream taken from them by the party of greed.

Posted by All Facts Support My Positions at December 1, 2008 09:35 PM
8. Ragnar. Why do you despise us Americans who work for a living? The ones that don't live off our parents? The ones that are willing to pay what it takes in taxes for an America where anything is possible for every American, regardless of who their parents were?

What books have you read that convinced to hate us Americans that work 60 to 70 hours a week just to put food on our families?

Posted by All Facts Support My Positions at December 1, 2008 09:40 PM
9. The whole unfunded liabilities thing is asinine. Hell, based on current costs my unfunded health insurance obligations is over $200,000. How will I ever pay that? Easy month by month.

Even with debt its a little silly. My mortgage might be 4 times my income, but that doesn't mean I am financial trouble if my monthly payment is only 25%.

Posted by Giffy at December 1, 2008 10:10 PM
10. Ragnar:

I agree... we need to let the auto industry fail if that is what it is going to do. I hope you are not supporting any politicians that disagree with this most fundamental tenant of free market capitalism!

Posted by Lysander at December 1, 2008 10:14 PM
11. Ragnar. Why do you despise us Americans who work for a living? The ones that don't live off our parents? The ones that are willing to pay what it takes in taxes for an America where anything is possible for every American, regardless of who their parents were?

EXCEPT instead of your parents you want to live off the teets of EVERYONE else.

Not only are you factless, I sincerely doubt you can be taught. DO THE MATH!

The UNIONS have gutted, quartered and served up that golden goose and no amount of CPR, heart paddles or magic injection is going to bring it back to life to lay more fancy expensive eggs.

Bury that sucker and hope for some kind of reincarnation.

The UAW has just under 600,000 members. Using the $29 MORE they get than non-union automakers:
$29 x 40 hrs/week x 52 weeks/year = $60,320 PER UNION WORKER PER YEAR x 600,000 = $36,192,000,000!

Furthermore, as per UnionFacts.com the UAW PAID OUT $119,744,856 for "Representational Activities" and another $9,621,882 for "Political Activities & Lobbying".

More from UnionFacts.com:

Job Banks: Paid Not to Work

Thousands of UAW members are being paid between $70,000 to $85,000 per year not to work. (By some accounts, the expense is even larger, costing the "Big Three" up to $130,000 for each job banker). For 4,200 of these union members, their 8 hour "work day" consists of "filling out crossword puzzles, watching World War II movies and even taking naps." These job bankers "have drawn nearly full pay and all benefits, often for years, no matter the companies' health." As shown by the $4.5 billion the "Big Three" earmarked to fund job banks, this practice is costing the companies billions of dollars at a time that they are losing billions.
Health Insurance: UAW's unsustainable spending
Negotiating for overly generous health benefits for union members has aided and abetted the decline of the auto industry. The "Big Three" collectively spent almost $10 billion on health insurance in 2002 and the UAW has heedlessly continued to waste money.
Some numbers for perspective:
$1,500 of the cost of each car pays for health insurance. For each car, more money is spent for health insurance than on steel for its construction. Toyota has far lower health care costs in comparison to the UAW. While healthcare costs contributed to a combined loss of $15 billion for the "Big Three," Toyota posted a profit of $14 billion.

We no longer live in the era of Norma Rae when a union was necessary to protect workers from an evil Boss Hog. Equality laws, labor laws and OSHA all serve to legally protect the workers. The unions are an obsolete, expensive and destructive force. It makes no sense to further demand MORE when it will result not in MORE for a job but in NO JOB at all.

UAW's Multimillion Dollar Resort
Union dues have subsidized the construction of an extraordinarily expensive resort and golf club retreat. The Black Lake Resort and Golf club is luxurious, to say the least. This lakeside resort has 241 guest rooms, 2 full-sized basketball courts, an Olympic size swimming pool, a full gym and exercise room with a sauna, and a golf course designed by Rees Jones, a pricey and well-known golf course architect.
While UAW union members are permitted to visit the resort their dues have paid for, they cannot do so at any significant discount--they only receive $18 off the regular price.

It's time for a reverse of the Norma Rae effect: it's time workers demand to be allowed to work without union thug interference.

Posted by Ragnar Danneskjold at December 1, 2008 10:29 PM
12. Well isn't this just the most idiotic line you've ever read? "The ones that are willing to pay what it takes in taxes for an America where anything is possible for every American, regardless of who their parents were?"...

Are you channeling Joe Biden all whine & no facts?

Here's another bit of drivel by all whine & no facts: "You better pray your ass off the DEMOCRATS save our country from the damage the Bush Crime Family, and his GOP slimeball friends have inflicted"...

You mean like these stupid, dishonest, parasitic Democrats all whine & no facts?

"Blaming the Unions for Detroit's downfall is like blaming gays for Katrina"...

Funny you should mention Katrina and the resulting problems...

It was liberal DemTards who made New Orleans such a basket case to begin with...

"If people like you were in charge we would all be scratching a living on Wal Mart wages, and a few people would be trillionaires, telling the "workers" where to stand, and when to sit"...

Yeah, sort of reminds one of Al 'the Supreme Goron' Gore, doesn't it?

"Like you are blaming democrats. The ones who can't even get Bernacke to tell them who he gave how much money to, and what toxic assets he bought with all those trillions"...

You mean those toxic assets that the Democrat Paulson no longer wants purchased?

Yeah all whine & no facts you sure told Ragnar off with all your delusion based whining...LOL!

Posted by juandos at December 2, 2008 02:55 AM
13. 1. Ragnar is right, Unions did destroy the big 3
2. We need a balanced budget amendment to the constitution to keep our thieving representatives from spending us into the poor house (not that we aren't already there).

Posted by Rick D. at December 2, 2008 05:49 AM
14. Now we hear that Nancy P wants a 500 BILLION stimulus. Ahhh, yes. Remember the first one the Bush pushed for and all the dem's said over and over it wouldn't do zip. Well, so putting 500 B more well help?

So factless, let's hear you whine this one away!
LOL. The joke is one you.

Posted by Army Medic/Vet at December 2, 2008 06:55 AM
15. The democrats have no clue and will not 'fix' anything. If they could, they would have spent the last two years averting the Fannie Mae meltdown---as it is, only republicans tried to reform it but were shot down by democrats, whose votes were needed to bring the reform. They weren't interested in any reform. If they couldn't get that one right, they won't have a clue about anything else, either. But no-facts doesn't seem to understand that, does he?

Posted by Daisy at December 2, 2008 07:21 AM
16. Factless,

Since you love paying taxes so much, I'm certain you only use a 1040EZ for your taxes and don't even take the standard deduction, right? After all, it's patriotic to pay taxes, according to your VP Elect...

Posted by Shanghai Dan at December 2, 2008 08:14 AM
17. All I can say is keep voting Democrat, that'll fix it. This way demoncats will blame anyone else except themselves, however they probably will blame the Conservatives and Republicans for the next ten years in order to get votes from their duped masses and deflect from their own failure. WAKE UP AMERICAN PEOPLE!!! If you want change vote conservative or other than demoncat.

Posted by TurePatriot at December 2, 2008 08:19 AM
18. It's Worse Than You Think

The first case to consider is General Motors, which was created in 1908. GM's company profile states that the company has 266,000 employees in 35 countries, and in 2007 sold 9.37 million cars and trucks. Looking at the highlights from the 2007 Annual Report, I see that GM took in over 178 billion dollars in revenue (or around nineteen thousand dollars per car or truck sold) from sales and just under 3 billion dollars from finance and insurance services. Despite this, the company's adjusted net income is a reported loss of 23 million dollars for 2007. But that's not the part that worries me. The loss before a reported "change in accounting principle" for 2007 was 38.7 billion dollars, meaning these geniuses spent an average of over twenty-three thousand per car or truck manufactured, so that they lost four thousand dollars on each and every car or truck they made that year.

Yeah... maybe they could build a bigger truck for us to haul more of our money to them.

Posted by Ragnar Danneskjold at December 2, 2008 10:55 AM
19. The Dummiecrats will try to force Toyota, WalMart and other non-umion companies into unions also and destroy them too (eventually).

Posted by ajday at December 2, 2008 02:03 PM
20. The real message of today's unions (which is distinctly different from some of the good they did before labor laws) is that a worker is just too stupid to think for himself, too simple to negotiate the best work/benefits package and incapable/unqualified and/or lazy to perform or KEEP their particular job WITHOUT paying for the help of thugs.

Unions are the SLAVE MASTERS of the modern world.

Posted by Ragnar Danneskjold at December 2, 2008 02:13 PM
21. Republicans and Democrats in Congress and our previous administrations are responsible for this fiscal irresponsibility. The Democrats cater to UNIONS and Corporations and the Republicans to Corporations.

The handwriting is on the wall (hope I am wrong, but doubt it) The Democrat controlled Congress wants to bail out the big three American automakers with our tax money totaling around $25 Billion even if they have a mediocre business plan - makes me want to puke !

That is why I support term limits for Congress. The electorate apparently cannot help themselves from reelecting the same old politicians over and over again. I would propose a limit of 12 years for US Senators and 10 years for US Representatives. I believe this would at least make Congress more fiscally responsible by eliminating the Pork barrel spenders who keep getting reelected.

Posted by KS at December 2, 2008 08:46 PM
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