1. "whether to file charges against the student"?
Come on, the habitual thief was trespassing and lunged at the kid! He was defending himself. I say "bravo" to the student for defending himself. Sounds like whatever the authorities had done about this creep sure wasn't helping much.
Burglar offed. Cased closed. Thank goodness the student is safe.
2. Boo-hoo.
Don't you understand that all "property is theft".
The evil student and his housemates taunted the poor criminal with their conspicuous ownership of consumer goods.
The poor criminal is a victim (to liberals).
3. If it had been a gun, the hue and cry would have been "guns kill". However, since it was a sword wielding student, the hue and cry will go out against the student. He is priveleged, after all, and attacked a poor, downtrodden thief.
4. This is an interesting case, but I'd say that the lunging clearly allows the student to defend himself with deadly force (under common law).
Katomar, that is a strawman argument.
5. JJ: You recognized it, did you? Thought you would, since it's your specialty.
6. As a prosecutor, I would be interested in what the crime scene evidence indicated, because the newspaper account raises a few questions: How likely is an unarmed person to lunge at someone wielding a sword? (It may have been dark though.) How easy is it to successfully strike/stab someone with a sword when you are pressed up against the wall, as the Police officer indicated happened? How likely is an unarmed person to press an attack if one of his hands is severed? (Not clear which injury was inflicted first, but that is probably determinable from the crime scene.)
7. Ah, gotta love Michelle's take on this:
Bad guy dead, good guy safe, happy ending for all!
Don't confuse us with any irrelevant facts like; who, in their right mind, would attack a guy with a sword?
"As seen on TV", which is Michelle's window on reality. It all fits into that half hour of programming where she finds her "wisdom".
8. A sword is messier than a firearm and is less certain. On the other hand, it is quieter.
9. A sword is messier than a firearm and is less certain. On the other hand, it is quieter.
10. Yeah...There is a strong suspicion that the chemistry major took the opportunity to act out his fantasy of being a sword wielding warrior. I wouldn't be a bit surprise if he purposely did much more than was needed to bring the situation under control. However, I don't think the Courts should be overly concerned in trying to prove murder or manslaughter. After all, it should be a given, if you commit home invasion and property crimes you should always be at risk of your demise.
11. Kinda also depends on what their actual law says constitutes "self-defense", or at the least justifiable homicide. Doesn't WA law state that home invasion is pretty much always grounds for the use of deadly force? Is Maryland the same way? From the sounds of it, it was a detached garage... does breaking into a detached garage qualify as "home invasion"? Obviously, if this guy lunged at him, I have a hard time not seeing how it was justifiable... but if the kid had to go out into the garage and leave the home, and the burglar didn't lunge at him as he claims, this kid could have some legal problems on his hand.
12. It is certainly evident that the police were not doing their job. Had the police been more vigilant in securing and pursuing the criminal, he would not have been killed. I thought liberals cared for these poor criminals? Police are only there to help keep them away from the dangerous homeowners.
13. Carter Mackley, I hope you are never a prosecutor where I or my family live. You need to get out into the real world. The thief didn't belong where he was, and the student had every right to defend himself and his property with whatever force the student (not a prosecutor playing Monday morning quarterback) deemed necessary in the stress of the moment.
14. Bob, I think you're a little off on the legal standard applied in such cases. I'm pretty sure it has to do with what a reasonable person would have done.
If the thief was really lunging, I think a sword attack would be reasonable. It might be difficult to establish for sure what happened in that garage, which would mean the kid couldn't be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt (and the prosecutor probably wouldn't charge him). But just being angry that there's a thief in your garage, without feeling endangered, is not self-defense. And we don't know whether the student "deemed necessary" attacking the thief.
I (and most juries) will give the benefit of the doubt to the resident of the home in cases like this, but only if there is doubt. You and I don't know all the evidence here.
15. I find it fascinating that they say the student wasn't hurt. Of course he was. He killed a man. He'll be haunted by that for the rest of his life. You want a victim of our society? There he is. He should never have had to be confronted by Rice. Rice should have been permanently removed from our society many arrests ago. The excessive leniency for habitual criminals like Rice places honest citizens, like the student, at risk for more than their property. That poor kid is probably going to be pretty screwed up for a while. And it never should have happened. The thief creep should have been in prison.
Hairy
16. I'm nauseated by people who suggest this guy was acting out some fantasy by attacking somebody with a sword. Watching somebody bleed to death isn't pretty, and isn't entertainment except for the most deranged -- and no one has suggested that the guy who killed him was a violent sociopath as far as I know.
17. This is an old story. Note the date. In any case, if we are returning to 19th century transportation, why not also return to 19th century self-defense tools?
18. "I (and most juries) will give the benefit of the doubt to the resident ..."
What do you mean "most juries?" If it ain't 100% of juries, there's something wrong. If somebody is in your house without your permission and is a stranger acting with bad intent, I'd say you need to take whatever action is necessary to defend yourself. In this case, that meant using a sword. Bad guy dead - end of story!
19. @16, jvon...Maybe, you should take a look at the report dealing with the case. The student said that he asked him what he was doing and threatened to call police. If this short question to Rice the perpetrator indeed took place means, that Rice had ample time to realize that the student was armed with a sword. Do you think that Rice would be insane enough to then, Lung at a man with a sword? Highly unlikely! Secondly: The student said that he was kind of forced against the wall and then struck him with the sword. Well, being forced against a wall makes it difficult to swing a sword with any force. The wounds that Rice received was an almost severed hand plus, a severe cut to the upper body. For a sword to chop through bone upon an freely moving arm, wrist, takes a good forceful and speedy swing of the sword. Then, to finished it with a slash to the chest is a bit of an overkill. Also, the man Screaming denotes, that perhaps that the first blow was to the wrist and the victim was also witnessing the unnecessary 2nd blow about to come down to his body. Naah...there is definitely room for suspicion.
20. To add to what Daniel says... if he was forced against a wall, that means he was at arms length, making it quite difficult to hit someone with enough force to sever a hand with a sword. That's not to say he couldn't stab him, and as the perp recoiled, take a swing at him. That's also not to say he didn't shove him off first and that part was left out of the story.
There is simply way too much missing from the story to say one way or another.
21. When you kill an intruder, you clam up. You simply tell the police "I feared for my life and defended myself." And nothing more but the basic facts. And you do have the right to defend yourself in your own home.
22. I don't see why it matters whether he used a gun or a sword. If you break into someone's home, you are risking death. The home owner has no way to know your intentions.
Statistically you are far more likely to die for a stab wound than a single bullet wound. In this case, a "samurai sword" (katana) is an extremely dangerous weapon. It is very sharp and specifically designed to sever body parts. Given a choice, I would much rather be shot than sliced with a katana.
23. A person can be backed against a wall without having somebody right in their face.
It's possible that he backed up against the wall in an effort to keep the intruder at the appropriate range for the sword. In other words, he was keeping the guy 5 feet in front of him and in order to do that he needed to back up against the wall. When the intruder kept coming and he couldn't back up any further, he took a slice at the guy. This would make his story consistant that he was backed against against the wall, the guy lunged at him and while he still had room to act, he swung the sword.
24. @23, Ken...You better read the report again. The student said the suspect lunged at him. It was that action that kind of forced him against the wall and then, he struck him with the sword. He did not merely back up against a wall, he was forced back against the wall. But, whether it was voluntary or not, it would be still difficult to effectively swing a sword. In fact, a normal reaction in such a situation would be the Thrust the sword rather than try to swing the sword.
25. So lets see... there is no evidence other than the student's word that he was attacked, so he must be guilty because a man willing to break into homes and steal other people's stuff would never be so stupid as to attack a man with a sword.
Right...
And here I though a man should be considered innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
Let us consider what we know to be true. The thief broken into another man's garage to steal stuff. The owner confronted the thief and killed him with a sword.
Is there not a reasonable doubt that the homeowner was safe?
Since there is reasonable doubt as to the safety of the homeowner I see no way for a reasonable person to find the homeowner guilty of anything.
26. There IS evidence other than the student's word, it is known as Crime Scene Evidence. This has been explained in detail on the previous posts on this thread. Try reading them before you post your comment. There is strong reason for suspicion that things did not happen exactly as the student claims. However, as stated before at post #10, I don't think the Courts should be overly concerned in trying to prove murder or manslaughter. After all, it should be a given, if you commit home invasion and property crimes you should always be at risk of your demise.
27. Y'all missing the real point of this.
Get rid of guns and there will still be swords.
28. This happened two months ago, any follow up to the story? Many of my retired military neighbors have ceremonial swords on display in their living rooms as display art from their years overseas (especially in the orient). But they are swords and they are weapons. Never heard of one being used to protect a household against a criminal intruder. Hope liberals Olympia don't come up with restrictions on sme very nice "art work"!
29. I find the story interesting because on the top shelf of my bedroom closet is a wakizashi, the katana's smaller brother designed for fighting in enclosed spaces. There is also a gun safe.
If I heard footsteps in the hallway at night (as in, someone was already IN my house), it's quite likely I'd grab that sword rather than fumble with the safe.
The rest may well play out like this story.
As for someone not being nuts enough to lunge at a guy with a sword, I'd suggest that someone nuts enough to break into a house with people in it, and not leave when asked to, has already proven he's either mentally unbalanced, too stupid to make rational decisions, or both.
30. @29, jvon...The burglar didn't break into the house while the student was home. The burglar broke into the garage at the back of the house. The student heard a noise and looked out and saw the garage door open. He then picked up the sword and investigated. So, the burglar wasn't as nuts as you might think. Also, if you have a deadly sword out in the open, why do you keep your gun in a safe? Doesn't make sense? If you need a gun for protection, you should have it available for immediate access like your sword.
31. Michelle's take on this event @#1 is right on target, and unkl bullshit's reaction @ #7 proves it.
However, anyone that thinks a sword would is necessarily more bloody than a bullet wound hasn't seen either.
Doesn't matter anyway because the guy got what he was looking for.