Comment on Entry: SEATTLE TIMES: Bills to restrict initiative process really aimed at Eyman, authored by Tim Eyman
1. The people always have the option to vote down an Eyman initiative which they did do in 2008. Why do Democrats hate democracy?

Posted by Crusader at February 3, 2010 08:31 AM
2. Yawn! :@

Posted by Duffman at February 3, 2010 09:55 AM
3. Duffman: you betray your colors when you yawn over tax increases that violate the explicitly expressed will of the people.

Posted by pudge at February 3, 2010 10:05 AM
4. Tim: oh come on! I-960 was OVER TWO YEARS ago!

It's not like the people have the same opinion now as then. If anything, this state -- indeed, the whole country -- has become much more anti-tax since November 2007.

You've seen all the massive pro-tax rallies. If the will of the people is to keep taxes down, then why haven't we seen tens of thousands of people across the state, and millions across the country, out protesting tax increases in the last couple of years?

Posted by pudge at February 3, 2010 10:07 AM
5. Oops, I meant, has become much more PRO-tax since November 2007.

Satire FAIL.

Posted by pudge at February 3, 2010 10:08 AM
6. These are the same people, by the way, who met with the trough-feeders who gave them a petition asking them to raise taxes ... but would NOT meet with the taxpayers who had a much LARGER petition asking them to NOT raise taxes.

They should, really, just be honest. "Look, we think we should raise taxes. We know many of you disagree, and most of you voted to not raise taxes in this way, but we think you're wrong; and further, we know you won't vote us out of office, so we don't care anyway."

This would raise public opinion of them, I think.

Posted by pudge at February 3, 2010 10:14 AM
7. You know me so well as to be certain as to 'my colors'. A bit presumptious, perhaps? :)

Posted by Duffman at February 3, 2010 10:33 AM
8. off topic

Posted by Politically Incorrect at February 3, 2010 10:36 AM
9. "We must suspend 960 to carry out the will of the people."

The arrogance is absolutely breathtaking. And yes, the comment Orwellian.

Posted by Michele at February 3, 2010 11:57 AM
10. "We must suspend 960 to carry out the will of the people."

This is easy to understand. In their view, THEY are the people. The rest of us are just tax fodder. I rather give money to Eyman than hand it over to the government.

Posted by Jack at February 3, 2010 01:05 PM
11. A good initiative would be one that mandates that no initiative to cut taxes can be on the ballot without explicitly spelling out from which programs the tax cuts would come from.

If children want to play government, they should do it for real.

Posted by Joe Szilagyi at February 3, 2010 01:25 PM
12. @11 - Go for it Joe. Convince 300,000 that you have a good idea and then convince a majority of voters (over 1.5 to 1.8 million) to pass it.

It's so nice that you are so much more superior than 1.5 to 1.8 million other voters in this state that you can deride them as being "children" when they try, through the initiative or referendum process, to give a collective message to their deaf legislative "representatives".

Posted by SouthernRoots at February 3, 2010 01:36 PM
13. I just don't like the initiative process in general; I don't want to live in a democracy I want to live in a Republic. We should do what our founders did, which is, pay a high price lawyer to write up a bill then bribe a politician to get in on the floor of congress and after committees have ensured it will not bankrupt our state, they all vote on it. If we don't like how they vote we vote them out. But seriously, Tim Eyman is an idiot that never thinks about the law of unintended consequences and he is going to mess everything up. I hate taxes, but let's make sure we at least get our bills paid. If Eyman wants to do something useful, amend the state constitution to impose term limits on EVERY ONE of Washington’s politicians!

Posted by Michael at February 3, 2010 02:01 PM
14. They'll be sent a decisive message on February 15. Join thousands of overburdened taxpayers on the front steps of the Legislative Building at the capitol to protest proposed tax increases.

http://www.pushbacknotax.com/

Posted by Grassman at February 3, 2010 02:06 PM
15. I hate taxes, but let's make sure we at least get our bills paid.

Even if reckless, irresponsible spending created the bills?

Tax cuts are a partial attempt to starve the beast to make it cut back on reckless spending, but it is an uphill battle.

Posted by SouthernRoots at February 3, 2010 02:18 PM
16. #11. Nobody is stopping you.

Posted by Gary at February 3, 2010 03:49 PM
17. #11. Read about the Laffer curve. Tax cuts, to a certain extent, increase revenue. You are asking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. We are nowhere near that limit.

Posted by Calvin A at February 3, 2010 04:12 PM
18. #17. Exactly, good point. Taken to an extreme, how much money would the government get from me if it taxed me 100%? $0.

Posted by Gary at February 3, 2010 04:17 PM
19. If children want to play government, they should do it for real.

Yeah, that's how we got Governor Quagmire, and now we're in the red by how much as of today? Seems the only people that understand how to run government responsibily are too busy being productive members of society that pay the taxes the anointed liberal-elitists choose to waste once they get to Olympia. This state needs to have a political high colonic if it ever has a chance to grow up and quit following the lead of economic failures like those of the state of California.

Posted by Rick D. at February 3, 2010 06:50 PM
20. Joe Szilagyi: your suggestion makes no sense. If government RAISED taxes while saying exactly what the taxes would be used for, then you might have a point. But that is not how it works.

Also, your stated initiative would be patently unconstitutional, since no such limit on the right to initiative is permitted by the state constitution.

Seems to me you're the child here, lacking basic understanding of what the law actually is.


Michael: you make some reasonable points, but the fact is, if the Democratic legislature and governor didn't screw up so much, then so many people wouldn't be so interested in passing these initiatives. The right to initiative is a safety valve, kinda like term limits (which might be a better solution to the same problem, but also harms the republican nature of our government).

Posted by pudge at February 4, 2010 08:01 AM
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