1. I have libertarian tendencies and I would vote no on this initiative.
Why?
People who use pot responsibly don't get caught up in the criminal justice system for using pot.
People who get caught in the criminal justice system for using pot, get caught for a ton of other reasons; possession of pot was just one of ten thousand reasons why they are getting busted.
Next: This will bolster the criminal elements (and I mean the REALLY bad guys) which make up the current bulk distribution channels. Are we learning nothing from what is going on in Mexico?
The "tax it" dip sticks don't seem to realize that in order to tax it- you need to first be able to regulate channels which currently can't even be controlled with the full efforts of law enforcement....so you're actually high on pot if you think dealers will log in to AccessWa to pay B&O, sales and use tax because they have a YEARNING to with in the law.
Every debate with the pot heads is like a conversation with a small child- they repeat themselves endlessly within the confines and limited logic of one living in their parents basement at age 28.
2. Andy you sound like a liberal, talking to adults as if they are small children and assuming to know whats better for there own person, sounds like some socialist dream!
Perhaps you should take another look at the political spectrum.
3. @1, Andy...I agree with you. I would certainly Not, sign the Initiative. Pot makes you Dumb. Pot makes you Senile. It destroys short-term memory. I hired a man who use to be a Pot smoker. He found the Lord and was able to shake the habit. Things got slow at the time and I was going to have to let him go. However, it came upon me to ask if he wanted to be the Company's salesman to represent our services. I never had a salesman before and this was a first try at this experience. Well, he thought for a moment and slowly shook his head yes. He soon began bringing in sales and accounts. In time, he enriched himself and the Company as well. However at first, he had to always carried a notebook and write almost everything down, far more than, normal because of his short-term memory loss caused by his earlier Pot smoking. It took around three years for his memory to function at a normal level.
I had other experiences with new hirelings. You would give them a few instructions in dealing with a particular job and when you checked back, they had forgotten most of what you had just, said. They would even go outside and have their weed break during their work breaks. One got so dopey that he simply didn't show up for work the next Monday after Friday's paycheck. I had to go down where he lived, no phone, and knocked on the door to see if he wasn't sick or something although, I had a strong suspicion of what the problem was. Sure enough, he open the door, bleary eyed and the room was filled with smoke. I thereupon told him he was Fired. It didn't seem to bother him in the least. No, if you don't want the Country to begin filling with unemployable Dolts and rising Crime, don't support this Initiative.
As for you meanie...You're the typical Liberal pretender. What a Phony! But then...You're a Liberal!
4. I wonder if they're going to harass the signature gatherers?
5. Actually, I think I like 1069! See Stephan's original post's link for the text.
6. As far as I can tell the state will not be able to tax/regulate marijuana as long as it is prohibited by federal drug laws. The initiative might be able to get support from tax-hungry groups such as public employee unions if it could be taxed.
But as it is, such groups will probably side with law enforcement & corrections, who will see the initiative as potentially taking work away from them. If nothing else this initiative will be useful in educating young voters about how Democratic politics really works. It will be interesting to follow donations on the PDC's site on this init.
As a republi-tarian voter but non-pot-user I will vote yes. My only qualm is that under the welfare state, the taxpayer is responsible for taking care of those who ruin their lives with drugs. Nonetheless, 'vote freedom first.'
7. Federal drug laws are void when the production and sale are confined within the State borders.
The feds know this and it is why the fight over medical use is so tenacious. After all it is perfectly legal if you obtain a tax stamp. Except they have never issued one.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a pot smoker. I don't want anything to do with it. I'm against what the government has done with our resources to fight something that started as a plan to lock up Mexicans.
8. I support full legalization of marijuana. It's time to end Prohibition and enact sane, sensible laws in regard to marijuana. We can work-out the details as we go, but legalization is inevitable.
9. Stefan,
Thanks for the link to Sensible Washington - I'm sending them a small donation today.
11. As one of the initiative co-authors, let me address Sharky's question: I-1068 does not change current law on delivery to a minor. It would remain a crime. As would driving under the influence, since Washington State's DUI statute makes it illegal to drive while impaired on illegal drugs and legal drugs (alcohol, Ambien, Prozac, etc.). I hope that addresses his questions.
Philip
12. I, like, totally pimped this initiative this morning.
13. The Bottom line is this...Will legalizing Marijuana bring a service to Society or a disservice to Society? Those who claim you should have the Freedom to do as you please, are sadly mistaken. If what you want to do, harms and burdens Society then, that activity should be outlawed. Pot is far more destructive to Society than Alcohol. It debilitates long after the activity has been curtailed. A frequent user can take years for his mind to clear and his cognitive abilities to return, if ever. To have and allow a wholesale growth of foggy minded dysfunctional unemployable Dolts wandering about and engaging in a rapidly increasing Crime rate, will soon cripple our Society. The cost to Society will be unsustainable and our lifestyles would soon be that of the Third World Countries, Crime ridden, no Hope and living in the Dirt. There is no sane reason to bring this Calamity upon our Society.
14. Making it illegal sure has helped, hasn't it? Seems we tried that with a worse drug- alcohol- a few years ago and it didn't work.
Why not trying to make it legal? Can't hurt.
I just think having laws on the books which people don't respect and aren't enforced- alcohol during prohibition-cell phones while driving- or any other goof law just breeds contempt for the legal system. And that hurts the good laws.
15. I've seen both drunks & stonners in car crashes.
Make it legal and the look out.
But not to worry, O-bummer's health care can fit it all.
LOL
16. Legalize it, and tax the hell out of it. Budget problems, solved.
As for the harmful effects on society, I don't think they'd be anywhere close to what alcohol does. Pot is a pretty passive drug, meaning there is far less aggressive behavior than with alcohol, which produces thousands of deaths and contributes to countless other assaults every year. It's also a boon to the snack food industry (oh no! obesity!).
17. swatter...Having Pot illegal has kept the destruction of runaway Pot usage at a more livable and sustainable level for Society. Society is not perfect but, allowing Pot usage to go unchecked would make Society more burdensome for all. For you to think that making Pot legal would not hurt, is one who is Blind to the reality of cause and effect that runaway Pot usage would bring. It would generate a high cost to Society to support the resulting minions of unemployable along with their involvement in greatly increasing Crime. Yes, there some laws that are more nick-picky than, the value they serve but, making Pot legal is not one of them.
18. I think legalization - and strict regulation on the sale of - just about any recreational drug is a good idea. I realize on this board that is not a popular idea, but endulge me for a few paragraphs here.
First off, if these drugs were available in stores it would take the profits out of the business for most of the outlaw elements that have made the southern border a war zone. 10's of billions of dollars are spent on illegal drugs each year and that money goes straight into the pockets of very violent and evil people.
Second off, when I was a teen, I found it much easier to buy pot, coke, etc. than I did to buy beer because beer was in the hands of the liquore store and they had laws about selling to kids. My dealer on the other hand, didn't care that i was underage, in fact he encouraged me to bring my school chums over.
Third point, I think if legal marketers took over the drug business, we might find that the health hazards would be addressed. Right now the dealers in control of drugs don't care about what it's cut with, how poison it is, or how habit forming it is. (In fact, the more habit forming the better.)
It's hard to believe that a legal industry wouldn't work to cut the addictive qualities, improve the chemical make-up, etc. Anyone that has ever lived in a part of the country where they made "moonshine" understands that while johnny walker black isn't healthy, moonshine can literally kill you.
There is a demand for drugs in this country and our government can't stop it. That's the simple fact. By not getting that demand "above board" we can't address the problems it creates and we can't create the revenue stream needed to address those problems. Legalization and taxation is the path to turning the unwinnable "war on drugs" into something we can manage.
I am not in favor of making drugs available to kids. I'm in favor of getting them out of the hands of criminals who want to hook our kids on them. There is a difference.
19. Hey Palouse...Read Andy's comment at 1 and realize that Taxing Pot would not be too successful. Making Pot legal and trying to Tax it would create a vast Black Market and runaway Crime.
Pot is not a passive drug. It causes stupid and aggressive behavior or passive behavior just, like alcohol but, with worst results. With alcohol, you can get back you cognitive abilities from over indulgence within a reasonable time span but, with Pot not necessarily so. A longtime user will fry his brain to the point it may take years to recover...If EVER!
20. I had to laff at many of the nayers' comments especially Daniel's No. 13. Even tho I guess he was talking about the legalization of pot I couldn't help but think he was talking about our current economic conditions and the results of the government helping wall street not main street.
We have been 'fighting the war on pot' for many many years now. It has cost trillions and ruined many a life. Give it up! Legalize the use of plants that grow on their own, control the quality, make some money and let a lot of people out of our prisons.
I'd go into more detail but it's approaching noon and time to have a good stiff drink.
21. Taxing Pot would not be too successful.
I'm not convinced by anecdotal evidence and theory.
The only reasonable comparison right now is alcohol, because it is both legal to purchase in state controlled stores, and illegal to sell privately in a black market. Yet, I don't see much of a black market for booze, and the state makes millions from alcohol taxes.
22. Get REAL!...johnny. Making Pot legal would just, make matters worst. Your reasoning is that making Pot legal because, the war on drugs is unwinnable is Ridiculous! How about our unwinnable War on the Crime of Rape, Theft, Murder etc.? Should we make those Crimes legal so there would be less cost and mayhem to Society?
23. "It would generate a high cost to Society to support the resulting minions of unemployable along with their involvement in greatly increasing Crime"
"It causes stupid and aggressive behavior or passive behavior just, like alcohol but, with worst results. With alcohol, you can get back you cognitive abilities from over indulgence within a reasonable time span but, with Pot not necessarily so"
-Daniel
These are quite the assertions. Following Daniel's logic, no one that smokes marijuana is employable, and all people who smoke are violent and commit other crimes.
Sir, I respectively submit that either you have no idea what you are talking about, or you are purposefully engaging in troll behavior on this message board.
24. @21, Palouse...You can't compare the buying and selling of Alcohol with the buying and selling of Pot. In the first place, the buying and selling of Pot is well established on the Black Market. Second place, all you have to do is grow it. The average person can grow it in his own backyard if it was legal. Why should the average person ever have to buy it legally from a store.
25. @23, Kevin...If you read my comment at #3, you would realize that I have had experience with Pot Heads. On the job experience, as an employer and as casual experience. I DO know what I'm talking about.
I did not say All Pot smokers were unemployable but, in time, it will lead to them to be less functional in the job market and eventually unemployable. Are you saying that Pot smoking has no effect on ones ability to function at a productive and safe level? Bottom Line: Your logic is that of a Liberal. Your logic is that of a Fool.
26. I love how religious nanny state conservatives banter about less government, unless it means people should have more personal rights. Then its wrong. Oh and its the LIbberalls who want to keep everything a bureaucratic mess.
I imagine its easy to forget that the organized crime of prohibition era was one of the great pushes for federalized power.
Shucks with all this talk about people growing pot in their backyards it reminds me of all the people I know with backyard stills cranking out ye ole moonshine and running it around the state dukes of hazzard style.
27. All: "Please do not feed the troll".
28. Meanie @ 26: Re: ". . . religious nanny state conservatives. . ."
You forgot "Nazis".
You need to read those leftist talking point memos a little more carefully so you can correctly parrot what to write.
29. And what is the test that will stand up in court for "under the influence" of pot? Think drivers, pilots,ship captains,etc. When such a test exist then pot will be no more harmful than alcohol, which only is involved in half the traffic fatalities.
30. Hi- I'm a Mexican drug lord. I successfully grown and import a 100 tons of marijuana in to the state of wa annually, in spite of a billion dollars of law enforcement efforts to stop me.
You know my biggest issue is the state washington won't recognize me as a legitimate business.
If only I had a way I could pay 60% tax and be regulated on something I can distribute quite easily and freely now. I mean why WOULDN'T I pay the state a ton of money to reach a market I already reach now?
Never mind that I successfully compete against alchohol and other recreational drugs- it's that nod of approval from state government that will get me out the shadows.
Please pass this bill and I will gladly pay the state of washington copious amounts of money.
----------------
To quote my favorite democrat- you guys are retarded.
31. @26, meanie...In the first place, there is no such thing as a religious nanny state conservative. Only, Liberals support the Nanny State. If you think that running a Still is as easy as allowing the grass to grow then, so be it. You're a confused lying Liberal who doesn't know up from down. You have little concept of what is profitable conduct and what is unprofitable conduct. You Blab in a disconnected manner, on and on. Again, you're a Liberal and nothing more is expected.
32. Something different needs to be done as whatever is happening now isn't working to "control" it. If control is what the government is after, than pot needs to be taxed like cigarettes and booze. Of course it would mean that pot would need to be commercialized and it would be much cheaper than street quality is now. Maybe better THC-wise too. The advantages are many. It would probably get gangs and crime out of the trade as well as focus police on other things more worthy. It would also bring in huge tax receipts if taxed like cigarettes ($$$ a pack). It would also change the way we think about pot in general. New policies would be crafted for work rules, etc.
I can say I'm not for 1068 in general because I don't see crime getting out of it with it enacted, and that is what the problem is, but something more extensive and far reaching, yes.
Next up we need to work on legalizing and taxing prostitution and get cops off the "John" beat, freeing them focus on preventing real crime.
33. the buying and selling of Pot is well established on the Black Market.
So was alcohol, before it was legal.
all you have to do is grow it.
And I brew beer. So do countless others. That hasn't seemed to affect legal beer sales much.
34. Palouse...You got a serious disconnect. You may brew beer but, it is illegal for you to sell it. That's part of the reason why sales of liquor and the tax collected thereof is so successful in the retail outlets. The growing of grass is a lot simpler to achieve. If any Dolt can grow the grass in his lawn, he can grow the grass you smoke as well. Has anything I've written made any sense to you? Probably not.
35. You may brew beer but, it is illegal for you to sell it.
So what. Selling pot privately could still be illegal as well. If there's some people who want to grow it themselves for private consumption, have at it.
The growing of grass is a lot simpler to achieve.
False. Brewing beer is incredibly easy.
If any Dolt can grow the grass in his lawn, he can grow the grass you smoke as well.
And anyone can brew beer, even you.
Has anything I've written made any sense to you?
You still haven't convinced me there's any difference to the way alcohol is handled. Because there isn't.
36. Palous-
--------local 420 consumer------------
I can buy pot for 10 dollars illegally
OR
I can buy the same quantity of pot for 50 dollars.
hmmmm decisions decisions.
-------------Local Doobie Dealer------
I can sell pot for 10 dollars like I do now and keep 10 dollars for myself like I do now
OR
I can sell pot legally for 50 dollars and keep 5 dollars for myself.
hmmm decisions decisions.
----
37. Hey Andy, I brew my own beer for half of what it costs in the store. Still hasn't affected beer sales.
And I have lots of friends who like beer too. And you know what? They don't buy it from me, they buy their own...at the store, at double the cost.
38. Palouse...Andy tried to open you eyes and I have too. The reason your friends don't buy your beer is because, it is ILLEGAL for them to buy it and for you to sell it. Get it?
If it becomes Legal to buy and have possession of POT then, like Beer, you could easily grow your own rather, than pay the BIG markup of Profit and TAXES. On that basis, anybody with a piece of ground could grow his own POT. He could grow his own POT even, easier than brewing Beer and therefore POT sales will not be as lucrative for the Government as first envision. Get it? No...of course you DON'T!
39. @22
Your comparison of legalizing pot with legalizing murder or robbery is silly. Those are not consentual crimes.
Legalizing pot and heavily regulating its sale would probably do more to take it out of the hands of kids and teens than doubling or tripling the number of cops we have on the street.
Regular readers of my posts know that I am not a crazy pot smoking idiot. (I'm actually a very conservative guy in my 50's.) It just comes down to free markets. Taking the money out of pot stops the flow of drugs to kids. I think what went on with alcohol sales proves that.
Find any honest teen and they'll tell you that buying drugs is WAY easier than buying alcohol, and while a dealer will happily sell you drugs while under the influence, the stores and bars won't sell you alcohol if you appear impaired.
40. No Daniel...it is you that doesn't get it.
The reason your friends don't buy your beer is because, it is ILLEGAL for them to buy it and for you to sell it.
And it would still be ILLEGAL for people to buy and sell pot privately if it was controlled and sold in the same manner as alcohol.
you could easily grow your own rather, than pay the BIG markup of Profit and TAXES.
And like I've stated multiple times, despite the fact that I legally brew beer at half the cost of the store, sales are UNAFFECTED. It would be the same with pot. Not everyone wants to bother growing it, in the same way not everyone wants to bother brewing.
He could grow his own POT even, easier than brewing Beer
Growing pot is not ANY easier than brewing beer. In fact, it takes even longer to get a good finished product. So this argument is moot. People who brew themselves don't affect beer sales much at all. There's no evidence home growers would affect it either.
41. @38
The idea that suddenly everyone is going to become a gardener is kind of silly isn't it.
First off, since this would be something that is regulated, illegal growing of marijuana might be as frowned upon as an illegal liquor still and also subject you to all kinds of legal issues of the "My kids stole marijuana out of your garden, smoked it and totalled my car so I'm suing you" variety.
Second off, I spend hundreds of dollars each year on fruit and vegetables, and actually own acreage, but I don't have time to farm. I can't help noticing that most of the rest of us in Seattle don't either. Even few of us brew our own beer, make our own Vodka from Potatoes, etc. even though you can learn how to do it on the internet.
If you or I wanted to, we could grow pot right now and so could anyone else with a closet and a working lamp. You can buy seeds on the internet or just go over the border to Vancouver and grab some out of the ashtray at any of a number of downtown bars where the stuff is smoked pretty much out in the open.
Some of you out there seem to believe we are living in this dreamworld where people who want pot can't get it because its illegal. Anyone who's ever walked through a Seattle park in broad daylight knows that is simply not true, and anyone who's taught or had a kid in high school knows it too.
I don't think marijuana is a good thing, and don't endorse it's use. But I think it's time to get all of these kinds of activities out in the open where we can deal with them honestly and openly. Fighting what we can't see isn't working.
42. I don't think it's legal, and I think the equipment is too expensive anyway, but if I could distill my own whiskey, I'd do that in a heartbeat too. Somehow, I think whiskey sales would survive as well.
43. @39,johnny...Your position that since, war on drugs is unwinnable then, it would make more sense to make it legal. My position was just, because the war on drugs is unwinnable is no reason to make it legal. The law is there to protect Society from the ravages of runaway use and its detriment to Society. Something that is detrimental to Society of the level of making a good portion of the people dysfunctional and unemployable and thereby cause Crime to rise because, of the need to fund their habit, I find is well worth the constant war on illegal drugs as I also, find it is well worth the constant war on other Crimes.
Legalizing pot and heavily regulating its sale would NOT, do more to take it out of the hands of kids and teens than doubling or tripling the number of cops we have on the street. That is where you and I strongly disagree. Why? Because, if possession is legal then, the supply will become more available as cigarettes are available to kids. Maybe, more so when kids begin to grow and roll their own.
44. The children argument is a straw man too. Underage drinking is illegal and still rampant now, even though alcohol is legal. Underage pot smoking is also very prevalent. Supply is not an issue.
Something that is detrimental to Society of the level of making a good portion of the people dysfunctional and unemployable
This is bunk. I've smoked pot in the past, and I am still employable. So have millions of others. Just because it's legal will not turn masses of people into pot smoking lunatics. The same way that everyone who legally has a drink does not become an alcoholic. And I've never heard of someone dying from smoking too much marijuana. Alcohol poisoning kills people every year, and overall contributes to many more societal problems, yet we still tolerate that.
45. @40, Palouse...You're Blabbing without pertinent understanding of the subject matter. Pot is a Tuft wild plant that grows all by itself if necessary. It can be found in rural areas, especially along ditches where, there is a tendency for more moisture to be available and the seeds are carried along the ditch as well for further germination. Yes, if you can grow a lawn, you can also grow Pot. All you need is the space to do it and Pot is easily stored in Bulk without the need for bottles or expensive containers.
46. if you can grow a lawn, you can also grow Pot.
I've been over this, it's moot. Anyone can brew beer too, and the government still makes millions in tax revenue from beer.
All you need is the space to do it
Not everyone has that either. People still live in cities you know. But that's irrelevant too, because there's still a lot of people who will simply choose not to bother and buy it from a legal controlled source, just like booze.
47. @44, Palouse...Wrong! The children example is not a straw man. It is based on hundreds of years of underage children getting their hands on and smoking tobacco. This is a well known occurrence. When Pot becomes legal, the availability will make it just that much easier for the underage to access it. Underage Pot smoking will vastly INCREASE as will the smoking of Pot in general. Pot smoking is much, much more harmful than cigarettes, it turns the minds of the young into the minds of the senility of old age. It is better for Society for Alcoholics to die within a decade than a brain-dead doper that needs to be on welfare for the rest of his Life.
48. @46, Palouse...The point is, it is a whole lot easier to grow Pot than, having the needed equipment and attention to brew beer. Being that is so, Pot can become more available than, beer. Nuff..Said.
49. This is a well known occurrence.
So is children smoking pot, so it matters not if the PRODUCT is legal or not. It's still ILLEGAL for kids to use it.
it is a whole lot easier to grow Pot than, having the needed equipment and attention to brew beer.
This is completely false. You can find the equipment needed to brew beer for less than $50 on craigslist, and have some good brew in a few weeks. Pot takes longer than that to grow.
50. Guess who I am talking about?
Arguing with him is about as productive as arguing with a tire iron.
I have to believe he is goofing on this board.
Nobody could possibly be that obtuse and know how to operate a computer.
51. The point of children having more access to Pot is that it is more dangerous than cigaretts.
The point of Pot being easier to grow, still is true if the equipment to brew beer is $50.00. It not only takes equipment, it takes time and attention and expensive storage, where Pot does not. A good brew takes more than a few weeks. The good beer also, requires ageing. I have brewed beer and fermented wine as well. No matter how things are explained to you, you still don't seem to get it. How come?
52. The point of children having more access to Pot is that it is more dangerous than cigaretts.
It's not more dangerous than alcohol, and that's legal and they drink plenty.
it takes time and attention and expensive storage,
Time, yes, expensive storage, no. You can store it in jugs or any cheap bottles.
A good brew takes more than a few weeks.
False. I brew ales. They are done fermenting in less than two weeks. One more week in a keg and it's ready to drink. Brewing is very easy, and takes less time than a full grown pot plant. I've never grown one, but I imagine it could take months until it is productive.
53. I'm not as surprised by the ignorance of some commentators as I am about their willingness to put their opinions up as fact.
1) Anyone who thinks the inflated prices of a prohibition economy will be sustained in a legally regulated economy doesn't understand economics. The reason black market liquor isn't popular anymore is there isn't enough profit in it to entice people to break the law to make, buy, or sell it. If drugs were regulated - even hard drugs could be strictly regulated - legal businesses would make black market businesses obsolete - like stills, when was the last time you saw one of those?
2) I've known plenty of lazy people - some smoked weed, some used alcohol, some were just lazy on their own. I've also known some very hard working, responsible cannabis users. Lawyers, Doctors, teachers, small business owners, college students....people from all walks of life use this plant. Most people are smart enough to keep it quiet and not tell people who wouldn't be receptive, that's why you don't know.
3) Sometimes responsible users do get caught up in the criminal justice system. See horsesass.org/?p=24105 - he has Kathy Parkin's (a Seattle Medical MJ patient)story on his blog. It's not right that it's okay to get blindass drunk every night if you want, or take your kids to McD's and poke diabetes and heart disease into their mouths, but I'm a criminal if I choose to smoke, vaporize, or eat a cannabis brownie?
4) There was never any scientific debate to make it illegal to begin with. Please read up on the facts before you decide based on "personal experience" when you don't really have any. Check out Hemp.org and learn-- I have nothing to do with this site, I just thought they did a good job organizing it. There are the industrial uses of the plant that are just amazing, new medical research that is so promising, etc. etc. Please educate yourselves!
54. "I, like, totally pimped this initiative this morning."
Posted by KVI Bryan at February 9, 2010 08:22 AM
Oh no you didn't: that guy from Sensible Washington cleaned your clock. A word of advice: whenever you get into a battle of wits, don't show-up unarmed.
55. It is not hard to grow low THC hemp. It is hard to grow high quality cannabis. That's what people want for recreation and medicine. Since becoming a Medical user, I have researched it and it takes alot of money and skill to do it right. It is not like growing lawn grass! It has to be done indoors with special lights, nutrients, CO2, etc. because with limits on the amount you can have, you need to do a perpetual harvest system and our climate doesn't support that. I have also found that there are particular indica strains that work much better for me than the sativas commonly found in the underground market. There is so much more to this than the casual observer realizes.
56. Mary...You and Palouse don't understand the economics of the game of providing product to the populace. If a product is easily produced without any preventive cost and specialized equipment nor any great learned skills to go with it and if it is legal to do so then, it will be much more difficult to add taxes and various overhead cost to the product and expect it to sell without serious competition from local sources. The key in the subject of this forum is dealing with a product that is grown and very easily grown at that. We are dealing with Pot that can very easily be placed in the Black Market at reduced prices. The scenario that making it Legal will control the propagation/multiplying of Pot on the open market is False.
57. @55, Mary...You have been Suckered by the Equipment Salespeople. Marijuana is easily grown and grows all by itself in the wild. However, if you want a continuous harvest then, you have to take extra steps. But why bother, you can dig up your yard and get a year's supply with one harvest. Such a Deal!
58. Black market or open market? Not the same thing. Black markets only flourish when products in demand are either illegal or so heavily taxed that enough profit can be made that it is worth the risk of being caught. As a consumer, would you buy from an unlicensed dealer and break the law when you have the option of buying from a legal source with whom you have legal recourse if you have a problem and who wants to keep you as a customer happy? The reason prices go down for legal products is that the prohibition market has costs built in for product that gets confiscated, paying bribes to officials, prohibition related costs on top of the overhead for the equipment and electricity, etc. A legal business could do it much more efficiently and ergo less costly.
The point of the initiative though, is not to set tax policy or anything like that. The legislature would have to do that once the initiative passed. The point is to stop criminalizing behavior that is not criminal. If you don't like it, don't do it! Prohibition magnifies every "evil" associated with the substance prohibited. Nothing good has come of it and it's morally wrong. I lay in bed sometimes with terrible pain and on my TV are people kayaking over waterfalls - legal- another kid paralyzed playing high school sports - legal - another group killed climbing a mountain in the middle of winter - not only legal but we send out rescuers! But use Cannabis in your own home??
What don't YOU get!?
110 million people in the US have smoked it, Our founding fathers smoked it and used it to make rope and canvas. It's been used safely for thousands of years and we should have the right to decide for ourselves as adults. That's what liberty means. There are lots of things I wouldn't do, legal or not. No one that doesn't want to, is going to run out and buy cannabis just because it's legal. They have fewer users per capita in countries where it's decriminalized. That's a fact, the real world.
The illegality of cannabis is outrageous, an impediment to full utilization of a drug which helps produce the serenity and insight, sensitivity and fellowship so desperately needed in this increasingly mad and dangerous world."
- Carl Sagan quote on Marijuana
59. "Pot is that it is more dangerous than cigaretts"
Daniel, if you believe that I am truly amazed! Have you ever read anything about cannabis? I can see where some people are duped by the drug war propaganda, when they have no real life experience to go on, but that is beyond the pale of ignorance. Do you think cigarettes are non-carcinogenic and safe? Cannabis extract is being used now to cure cancer by shrinking tumors. Recent studies show cigarette smokers who also use cannabis live longer than those who don't. Please educate yourself beyond what you learned in DARE.
http://www.medicalmarijuanadoctors.org/marijuana-proven-effective-treating-different-cancers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJmQ16cGBHU
60. If 1068 passes, you better believe there will be a very high Tax along with regulatory cost as well, on the product. Yes, high enough to continue the Black Market already in place. With Pot being legal, the cost will be much less in the procurement and sale of the product within the Black Market and the customer base will expand greatly. Better Black Market prices means more affordability and more sales. This computes to more users and a greater percentage of the Population at risk of smoking themselves into Senility. This risk of runaway addition upon the Populace will weigh heavily upon Society in cost and competitive performance. In time, we can have so many Dopey people being a drain on Society we can very will lose our prominence as a World Leader.
There is no proof our founding fathers smoked Marijuana. Some may have been cultivated it for other uses as fiber and perhaps, seeds as a food source but, there is no proof they smoked it. After all, it was Tobacco that was the rage when it came to smoking.
The Countries who claim that the use of Marijuana is less per capita where it is legal cannot be proved. Those Countries have no idea how much the Black Market is involved in the supply chain. You have Holland as an example of one of those Countries. Go to the parks in the Netherlands and you'll find it swimming with addicts.
Yes, sports can be dangerous. But, sports don't fry the brain, leaving a large percentage being dependent addicted Cripples weighing for the rest of their lives on Society.
61. @59...Cigaretts don't Fry you Brains...Nuff, Said.
62. Danial, you do sound really ignorant. You really do. Im sorry to say it, but you clearly dont know what yourt talking about. Wanna learn something and be aducated on the subject? I personally invite you to watch The Union. Oh, Weed dont Fry your brain either, or your lungs, or anything for that matter. But cigarettes kills thousands every year. There has NEVER been one death from Pot use in history.
63. Royce...Weed does fry your brain. Weed makes you Dumb. Weed kills the competitive Spirit. Weed makes you Lethargic. Weed makes you Senile. Weed has caused numerous Deaths through being high and inattentive behind the wheel and on the job. The Truth of those statements have been known for sometime. So, Wake Up to Reality! Quit sucking Weed and sounding like a Dope!
64. @Daniel,
Post #22 "...make matters worst" ?!?
Hard to take you seriously on the subject of lucidity and learning with language like that.
65. Yeah...Lucid. I can't spell and my grammar is not perfect therefore, the substance of what I write has no value. You sound like a True Liberal always, knowing what is the most important in any screed. Not the substance but, the spelling and the grammar. Liberals certainly know where it is at...Don't they?
66. I was paying attention to the subject matter.
The point is that there are many reasons people fall short, and marijuana use doesn't preclude
failure as a rule.
I appreciate the communication.
67. Daniel needs to learn when to capitalize letters.
68. Lucid...I think you should be more careful in your word usage. Preclude may be commonly perceived in meaning as "coming before an event". However, to preclude, means to prevent an action. If your intended meaning was that marijuana use doesn't come before failure as a rule then, you're Wrong. Marijuana addles the mind. An addled mind is always a recipe for Failure.
69. Brilliant...Huh? Yeah...I should write and capitalize in the proper Ho-Hum manner. I should never emphasize any word within the screed. I should always, write and speak in a monotone manner. I should always, limit myself to being Jack the Proper and Dull...Boy.
70. Thanks for the correction,
Your right , I was under the impression it meant
"coming before an event" .
I don't agree that [following your logic] marijuana use equals failure.
take care,
71. Man, stoners are pathetic. You know the kind. They never grew out of it. It's a lame habit.
72. To nasuwa mi pewien pomysł:...
73. http://www.theolympian.com/breakingnews/story/1132438.html#Comments_Container
Yeah- all these pot dealers need to be upstanding citizens is a form to pay taxes on.
Should we legalize the 50 other crimes they committed too?
74. Take a good look at that story.
Why would pot growers have stolen cars and other stolen property? I mean- by pot head logic all they need is a form to pay taxes on and then they'll be upstanding citizens- they'll probably even start buying super bowl ads with clydesdale ponies.
Their customers are fine and upstanding citizens too right? I mean EVERY distribution chain will take stolen rigs and stereo equipment for legal tender.
Suffice to say- I've never known someone to trade stolen property for beer or hard booze.
75. Danial, Pot does NOT make you weak and lethargic. Look at Michael Phellps, Arnold Schwartznegger, Joe Rogan, 90 % of the NFL in the off season, 60% of the NBA in the off season. It does NOT fry your brain. It does however make it more difficult for short term memory to become long term. Marijuana is less addictive than even Caffine, and less deadly than even asprine. Alcohol and cigarettes are by far worse for the human body, and anyone that seriously would argue that fact is senile himself, or has a hidden agenda. You a cop or work in law enforcement Danial? Watch the movie, The Union.
76. Oh, Danial. It is not easy at all to grow good quality pot. There are so many facters to think about, like pH levels, humidity, food, bloom chemicals, heat, types of bulbs, kind of growth systems, types of seeds, light vs. dark spectrum, just to name a few. Everyone can throw a seed in there back yard, and watch it grow, then smoke it when its done. But not a whole lot of people can grow good quality pot.
77. @75,76, Royce...Because, Michael Phelps, Arnold Schwarzenegger have smoked Pot, that makes smoking Pot a Good Thing...Right? Especially, with Arnold Schwarzenegger. What a Fool he is. Doing a Great job in Bankrupting California, isn't he? What a Joke your are in thinking Pot smoking is a good thing because, you hero has smoked it. What a Laugh! I didn't say that Pot makes you weak, I said it makes you lethargic. You don't see any Pot Head sucking his weed and at the same time is energetic, do you?
Yeah sure...Pot smoking is not addictive. Pot smokers can take it or leave...anytime. That's why they continue to smoke it even though, they know they are becoming more and more forgetful by doing so. Even though, they know they are at risk of losing their job/lively hood because, they are losing their ability to perform their job. Yeah...Right.
Yeah...To grow Pot, it takes all kinds of expertise and expensive equipment to be successful in growing Pot. That's why Pot grows so successful on its own in the Wild. Do you think a Pot smoker cares if the THC levels are at 18% rather than 20% when, if its the difference of paying top price or growing it in his own backyard? In the first place, if you have the right seeds to the right variant of Hemp, you will get the same THC levels from your backyard plants as you will from the more expensively black light grown. The reason they grow Hemp indoors is because it is Illegal, hence the caution and extra expense...Get it? Naah...You're a Phony Lying Liberal!
78. I know full well the pot smoker will care. More than that, he will tell anyone, at enormous length, all about the minute differences between *this* cannabis and *that* cannabis, whether or not they care to listen. (Potheads are irritating as all hell to me, but that shouldn't be a criminal offense.) A dedicated pot smoker is likely to be an enormous cannabis nerd. A casual pot smoker is unlikely to grow it at all.
By the way, it truly is that easy to brew a decent beer.
79. it's tough to grow---like thistles and scotch broom-
80. Danial @77. There you go again, twisting words around. I didnt say it was a good thing, or a bad thing. And neither one of them are my "Heros". But it does go to show that the worlds greatest swimmer in HISTORY smokes pot and is still the greatest. Arnold is a movie star, world class bodybuilder at one point, and now the Governer of one of the best states in the US. They do something and everyone else follows suit. I used to smoke pot all the time. Now I dont because of the legal consiquences, and I need my job. Wasent a big deal quiting, and isent for hounderds of thousands of other who will quit for a month or so to get a job. Yes, MOST people get really laid back and dont do much when they smoke pot. Same can be said with Alcohol. It aint exactly something you should do before going to work. But I do believe that as an American citizen living in "the land of the FREE", we should have the choice to kick back after work, and smoke a joint before going to bed. It really dont matter what I say. You will just try to twist my words around, or throw out the same old lies that the government has been saying since Nixon. And THC levels between 18 and 20 %s....no that wont matter to most, but we are looking at percentages closer to 8% to 20% differences. Oh, by the way, a relative of mine smoked all through college at UW. He double majored, and graduated with a 3.7 Accu. GPA. Not bad for a STONER HUH? If you want to make things illegal because of moral issues, then maybe alcohol, and tobacco should both be just as illegal as heroin and cocaine. Maybe strip clubs should also be illegal. Different people have different morals. Fact of the matter is YES, marijuana should be legal for responsable adults to use in a responsable manner if they so choose to. They should also be held accountable for there actions. So, if someone gets stoned and drives down the block to get Dominos and runs over his neighbors kid (which happens every day with alcohol) then they should be held accountable for there actions. Most people will choose to order in though.
81. Danial, At end of 77. You really think its all about the seed and not conditions? Oh wow. I dont need to even bother with an answer to that do I? You really are just showing everyone that you really dont know what your talking about. You just made me feel a lot better about all this BS you are putting up on here. The minute people see that comment they will know you have nop idea what your talking about. Some can be said about your comparisons with pot and alcohol, and pot and cigarettes. Just read the Schaffer reports.
82. @80,81, Royce...You're full of Crap! First, I never twisted any of your words around...PERIOD! Second, your Swim-boy did not use Pot on a regular basis. He tried Pot. There is a BIG difference but because, you're a Liar, you come across as though he was and still is a common user. As far as Arnold goes, he is as Dumb as they get. He has a track record to prove it and California is certainly no longer one of the best States. People have been leaving California for years and it's only getting worse...Much Worse! So far, into your comment, your credibility is bouncing at ZERO!
You seem to forget, I have had direct experience with Pot Heads. I know their reduced capabilities compared to the common. So, don't BS me about Pot being a non-threatening drug upon Society. Being faced with Pot as an employer, I'm well aware that the use of Pot is based on a Performance issue and rather than, a Moral issue. If you make Pot legal and open the doors WIDE for runway consumption, you will noticeably reduce the Performance and Competitiveness of that Society. By doing so, you will put that Society at risk of being surpassed by other Societies and become a backwater to the rest of the World. This is NOT what we want for America!
Pot is never known as a Energizer. It is a De-energizer. It is a slow-me-down both Physically and Mentally. That's one of the reasons it is more dangerous than Alcohol. Alcohol has many positive uses including consumption. For those who need a quick pick-me-up, alcohol is sometimes used. Pot is never used as a pick-me-up.
As far as the proper seed for Marijuana that produces the highest percentage of THC...Yes, the seed is far more important than, the so-called growing conditions. Anywhere, the Wild Marijuana grows well in nature, the difference between the THC from the controlled environment is neither here nor there. As stated before, the reason it is grown in house, is because it is Illegal to grow. Another lessor reason, is you can have a continuous developing crop for year around harvesting. However, if it becomes legal. it will be far, far more cost effective and efficient to grow in the backyards of the user and store the surplus for year around use.
As far as the Schaffer reports go, I have not read them. If they have the same level of Credibility as your commentary then, why waste the read. Not everything you read is creditable. In fact, the World is full of Deceit. I know the value of what I have said means next to nothing to you and if it weren't for the possibility of other readers reading my comments, my efforts would be to much of a waste to proceed. So get lost...Royce!
83. Danial @82. Yes, you did and still are twisting my words. People who read this can see for themselves. Using Alcohol as a pick me up? Really? Thats funny. Pot is absolutly a de-energized at least Indacas are, sativas are more of a picker uper. Your right about Arnold being a meat head, Michael Phellps or "swim boy" as you would call him did and im sure still does smoke on a regular basis. He was taking BONG hits in the public eye for cryin out loud. Not exactly a first timer thing to do. The schaffer report was a test and report done by the government under the Nixon administration. It was the first and last, because the findings came out that essentually no long term ill affects happended to any test subjects. Mental or physical. Give me some good hard evidense that marijuana is bad for a person physically and mentally and maybe ill listin to your less than educational comments. Your an employer in what field i wonder. There are many reasons marijuana is grown indoors. One of which is consealment (Of course, not rocket science) also you can give the best nutrients directly to the root, the ideal growing environments. Good seeds will not produce good weed in less that ideal climents. Thats a fact. You say im full of crap but im feeding you facts brother. I also have direct experience with pot users. Most people do, and dont even know it. Societies work force is more at risk with the low paying in other countries, not weed my friend. I will not get lost Daniel. Im rather enjoying this lil debate, especually since you are not giving any good facts or eveidence to support your side. I on the other hand have givin you multiply different refferences to look into. All you can do is try to insult me, and throw more lies out there. Have a good evening, I know I will.
84. Well Royce, it is obvious that you're still as Dumb as you were before. For you to Blindly believe any Government report is Ridiculous! As far as references go, I'm giving my personal experience as a reference. As said before, I have hands on experience in dealing with people who use Marijuana. This experience is based on their ability to Perform the needed tasks set before them. A heavy user would always fail...Big Time! Why? Because, HE CAN'T REMEMBER HIS INSTRUCTIONS...his BRAIN has been FRIED! Plus, my personal experience dealing with multiple subjects gives me a clearer realization of the Truth rather than, some Phony Government report. What a Joke! I have said and explained this to you before but, you're unable to grasp the validity and value and continue to ignore what has been said. You continue to Blab on no, matter what has been said or what the facts and reality are. But then, this is the insanity of debating with a Liberal...A WASTE of TIME!
Yes, one of the uses for alcohol IS a pick-me-up. What do you think the famous rescue dog carries in his little barrel around his neck...Soup? You're such an ignorant Dolt. The reason alcohol is sometimes used is for a needed pick-me-up is because it is efficient in reviving the famish and near death. Alcohol can enter your system directly as a energy source and doesn't have to first be broken down and metabolized like food, which would further draw energy from a critically famished and depleted body. For your information, the body produces alcohol to provide needed energy.
My statement that the seeds are the most important, if it is grown in an environment where the Wild Pot does well, holds up to the light of Truth. I never said, no matter what the growing conditions were. For you to ignore that fact and pretend it was not said as you repeat yourself is just, further evidence that you are a LIAR!
There is no proof that Swim-boy is a regular user. The Bong may have been borrowed in his try with Marijuana. After all, for him to be photograph sucking on a Bong sounds like a set-up job by the Marijuana people using him to give credibility to Marijuana use...Do you Think?
Yes, you are feeding me Crap! I caught you in a number of Obfuscations and Lies. But then, you're a Liberal and Liberals are the known LIARS and FOOLS of this World. Nuff said.
85. No, not nuff said. Your supposed first hand experience is more than likely a load of malarchy. In fact, you seem to message on here so much it is hard to believe you run a company, but whatever. Ill take things at face value for your sake. So yes, I must be just as smart as I was before. You can say im Dumb all you want but the proff is in the research. I would definatly take a scientific research study over your word any day of the week. But then again, that is just words from a Dumby. Also for your info, the human body also produces its own cannaboniods in the brain. Of course there is no proff "swim boy" is a regular user. If there was the tabloids would have chewed him up and spit him out. Just like they did when they did catch him. Im glade he is descreate about it. Im pretty sure he was not set up. lol. It helps with his sponsers amoungs other things. Again im not sure why you choose to resourt to name calling. Not a very professional thing to do. But then again I am talking to Danial. Again like I have said a few times before, I dont think that people should go to work, or drive under the influence. But is something that should be done in the private of your own home by responsable undividuals under responsable conditions. Im almost posative that I have more experiance with this PLANT than you do. mojority of the public is all for this. The proff will show come November. A wise man onse said, "Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very princip...les upon which our government was founded." Lincoln, Abraham
86. Royce...The manner in which you write suggest to me and perhaps, other readers, that your not fully connected in your cognitive abilities. It may be that you're high at the time of your writings or you simply are suffering from the long-term use of Pot. Example: You state that you're glad that Swim-boy is discreet about his usage of Pot. How can that be true, if he allows others to view his activity, let alone, be photograph performing the activity? Do you see the disconnect in your thinking? Probably not.
Your assessment that it seems strange that I have time to message on SP while running a Company is correct. I'm now, retired. So, at least you are correct on one thing in all this dissertation. Good for You!
Yes, I would trust my own experiences in dealing with multiple Pot smokers over time than, some Phony Government study. Do you believe that so-called Government studies always represent the Truth? How about the Government paid for Global Warming studies? Do you believe those too? You probably do.
The majority is all for the legalization of Pot? We may see soon enough.
Yes, I believe in name calling. Names can be very descriptive and to the point without going through a lot of descriptive adjectives/words to describe the individual. I believe in calling a Spade a Spade. However, I may be to quick to call them at times.
Bottom Line: In time, you could be a lot smarter, more aware and clearer in your thinking if you pray to GOD for the Strength to drop the use of the debilitating brain destroying Pot and for the Light to see Truth and have Him lift you out of the Darkness in which you now stand.
87. So your retired....this explaines alot. For examplane your way of thinking. And no your example of me disconnected is wrong and distorted yet again. For a guy who is in the spot light at all times, and gets cought smoking some grass only once in his life is a pretty decent record. This of course is based on if he is a regular user (which is a safe bet). The reason I use the schaffer report as an example is because we all know Nixon is the President who "kicked of the war on drugs". The Schaffer reports were done under his administration, and the FDA and several other branches that were involved reported that Marijuana has no long term affects on its users, and should be legal with not criminal penalties involved with it. Nixon then proceeded to trash the finding and make marijuana a schedule 1 substance. Yes, I do believe that the majority of washingtonians are pro legalization. Feel free to call me names all you like. And again for the recard, I do not use Marijuana. and I believe I have a great relationship with my heavenly father. By the way, God made pot, and man made beer.......who do you trust?
88. Royce...You admitted that you use to smoke Pot. Maybe, you're are still suffering from the effects Pot has done to you and maybe, you're still smoking. Apparently, Nixon was Wise enough to know that legalizing Marijuana would be detrimental to Society. Government is well known for issuing Phony numbers and reports. What else is new? I doubt very much that the Swim-boy was and is a regular Pot smoker. Again, there is no proof. If he was a regular Pot smoker there would be a number of people who would be happy to come forward an attest to that fact. There would be no problem of the gathering of witnesses. Doesn't the fact, that there is a picture of him sucking a Bong and yet, there is no testimony to support him of being an on going user give you cause to wonder? This obvious omission to the claim doesn't make sense...does it? Usually, if something doesn't make sense, it's not True. Therefore, somebody handing him a Bong and encourging him to give a try makes more sense. Then, someone compromising the event by taking a picture. Doesn't that, with all things considered, point to a set up? Do you think all those things coming together was just, a coincident? Do you think on this matter and others, that you may be lacking in common sense and the ability to connect the Dots?
I trust GOD...Period! GOD made all things. Not all things are good for Man. GOD gives Man Freedoms, which include Freedom of choice yet, he also, provides The Rule of Law that Man is to live by. Man has the choice to do Good Things as well as, Bad Things. The opportunities you have and the Choices you make is how you will be Judged.
89. Correct, there is no proff of Michael Phellps being a continous user ( This is why I say he is somewhat discreet) The fact that there is not a bunch of people steping forward to throw him under the bus, shows to me he has good loyal friends that want his career to remain great. And for him to remain sucessful and an Icon to many. You bring up proff over and over, yet you lack proff on marijuana being a harmful substatnce. This is becauser there is no proff, and has virtually no long term harmful effects on the human body. Especually when used in moderation. Fact of the matter is, marijuana is less harmeful then most things that are legal. Did you know there are more deaths involved with multi vitamins then there are marijuana? Probably not, because you obviously dont research much. You like to judge everyone on a handful of people that you have worked with. Also, you keep calling me Liberal. Yes, there are some things that I am Liberal about, but there are also some things I am consertave about. Anyone who chooses a side without looking at the thing being questioned is a fool in my mind. I dont think Meth, Cocain, Crack, Herion ect ect should be legal by any means. These are highly addictive substances that kill and ruin lives (much like alcohol, but worse). I have yet to meet or hear of someone smoking a lil pot and going home and beating his wife and kids. Also, I dont see to many people living on the streets because of an addiction to marijuana. The same can NOT be said for Alcohol, which is completely legal. I my friend also trust god, and if you look in the old testiment, Hemp was a huge part of life back then. There were lotions made from Hemp with High TCH levels, that were absorbed through the skin. This helped with pain, and other skin conditions of the time. And were even used in Religouse cerimonies. These same recepies are also in the Kabala. There are many very successful Marijuana users out there. Cops, Gevernment officails, Docters, sergions, ect ect. Fact of the matter is this. Alcohol is legal, because we should have the right to choose what we put in our bodies. As an adult we need to choose which path in life to take. Along the lines of alcohol we can choose to be lushes who drink all day, or dont drink at all, or (like most Americans) drink from time to time in a respnsible manner. The same can and should be said for marijuana. IF you choose to smoke all day every day, then yes, (of course) you wont function at 100% of your capability. But you would not be as bad off as a alcoholic by anymeans. Or you can choose to smoke from time to time, in a responsable manner, or dont smoke at all. Either or, you should not be punished for your adult decisions, if you are harming nobody. Here is another professional athlete for you. Eddie Brova, one of the worlds best Jiu Jitsu practioners in the world. He does in fact smoke everyday for the most part. He is a very smart individual and very talented. Once marijuana does becoma legal in the USA, most other countries will do like wise. Marijuana is illegal in most other countries because the UN makes them follow there rules. Which is more like US rules. If they choose not to, Then they are on the UN's "shit list" so to speak. Yes, I admitt that I used to smoke pot, up till about 4 years ago. Our last 3 presidents also have admitted that (Which at one point would have been political suicide). Just goes to show the direction our society is moving in. I will be judged, and I do hope that God has mercy on me. I do not worry about me smoking pot, but I do worry about my "tresspasses" that I have commited. Until you start supporting your testimny with facts ( Not your so called personal experience)then I will continue to write you off as just another person who is very uneducated on the subject. This does sadden me to see someone so pationat about something that he knows virtually nothing about. In your case Ignorance must be bliss.
90. Royce...I gave you facts based on my own personal experience, which includes discussing memory loss with a user. However, if you want a link that supports my position, here it is: http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/1808 You can find other links if you wish to Google for yourself. And yes, you can find links that give you BS as well. The bottom line...I know what it does in my experience with various employees, those who were non-smokers compared to smokers. I know the difference and no amount of Phony studies can change that reality of personal experience.
As far as the UN goes, it wants to Control the World...Period. The UN is an Evil Entity, hands down.
You keep dredging up examples of profession athletes as proof that Marijuana does no harm. The noticeable harm it does, is to the BRAIN. Are athletes known for their academics or their athletic prowess? Are movie stars known for the acting and looks or their intelligence? Is whatever, an athlete or movie star does in their personal lives is Smart and OK and therefore, it is OK for you to indulge in the activity as well? Get Real! Have a Clue! There are plenty of athletes and entertainers that have shorten the careers and lives through wrongful conduct.
Yes, Hemp has many uses from the making of ropes, paper, cloth, etc. Smoking Marijuana may reduce anxiety but, making a lotion for the effected area causing pain is not done with any known success.
For you to say that it saddens you to see someone who is so passionate about something he knows virtually nothing about, is just, another of your Ridiculous LIES. You know full well I know something about Marijuana. So quit Lying to yourself and others. You are only showing yourself to be a Liberal.
No...GOD does not give you the Right to abuse your body anyway you see fit. You are to treat the body with respect and to abuse the body is a TRESPASS! To commit Suicide is a Trespass into Damnation! Also, you are not to do anything unto Excess. Sucking Weed is a Trespass and an Abuse.
91. First of all your experience is not as much fact as it is opinion. I read your article. Looks like the study was done while the people were high. This (of course) does impair your abaility to remember things. A lot like being under the influence of alcohol. Thus, why I think if you choose to smoke it should be in the privace of your own home, and not at work or operating vehihicals and other heavy machinery. They also said, it worked on the human brain a lot like alcohol (which is legal).You say Phony studies. Sounds like you just write them off because they dont agree with you. I try to learn from creditable research. I always thought Marijuana was bad for your lungs and killed your brain. Then I started to research this. The more I read the more I relized I was lied to. Most people read to gain knowlege. You should do the same. I did say you know virtually nothing about it. Not nothing at all. And for you to be this stern on something that you clearly need to do more research on does sadden me. Im not tryin to teach an old dog new tricks. Your definatly set in your ways. I use professional athlets because they are more in the spot light about it when they decide to be open. I do not condone any activity just because someone else has done it. I was just showing you exaples to show what harm Marijuana actually does on a healthy human body (Particularly the respritoy system). There are many intellegent people out there that smoke on a daily basis though. Steve jobs (Creatore of Apple), Montel Williams, George Washington. Barrock Obama used to, he is a Harvard Grad, Caral Sagen ( a very notable science writter), just to name a few outside of athletics. Absolutly there is sucess with lotions. Contact any dispensary in California. They dont only sale the herb, but also edibles, lotions, lip balms, and sprays. There are actually some findings now that marijuana actually stimulates brain cell growth, and reduces inflamation in the ageing brain. Yes, abusing your body is a tresspass. But to abuse your body means knowingly harming it. Yet again, there is no good proof that marijuana causes any long term damage to the human body. I 100% agree with your statement of Excess. To much of anything is a bad thing. But I do NOT believe Marijuana to be a Tresspass but it can be abused just like anything else out there in our world. I can abuse a Fork by sticking it in my eyeball, so lets make that illegal to.....right? No, because we as adults need the freedom to make our own decisions. Not to be dictated by our government on what we should and shouldnt do. If this does pass, in all reality I will probably only smoke a lil grass from time to time. Like once a month or so (like i do alcohol). I have meetings to organize, and signatures to collect. So I wont be able to debate with you on the subject as much as I would like. I just really wish that you could look into this with an open mind, do the research, and make your own decisions. Not decisions that have bean pounded into your head since birth. I still invite you to watch the Documentry The Union. You can see it on documentryheaven.com. This show was a non biest look at Marijuana, but quickly went in one direction after research and interviews with many of different people. Remember drug cartels, and drug dealers are on your side Danial.
92. This just in, smoking dope DOES impact punctuation. See the article above by "I Rolls My Own" Royce.
93. You got to remember...You're a Liberal! Liberals may be very intelligent but, they are never Wise. Intelligence and Wisdom go very well together but, they are not necessarily aligned equally with each other. A person can be very book smart with a high IQ yet, still be a Fool. There are plenty of University Professors, Scientist, Researchers and the like that proves this very well. You can be of average and lower IQ and far less educated and be Wise. The problem is...That the Wise are of the Few and the Unwise are of the many. The reason you have to make certain conducts illegal is that the Unwise are too many in Society and will fall into abusive conduct to where Society will be harmed by their runaway conduct. You can't have a successful Society filled with Dopes. I could go on and on but, you being a Liberal still won't get it. It's like the first poster on this forum in his last paragraph said: Every debate with the pot heads is like a conversation with a small child- they repeat themselves endlessly within the confines and limited logic of one living in their parents basement at age 28. Unfortunately, the same is basically true in debating a Liberal that entails Logic and Common Sense.
Bottom Line: Wisdom is GOD given. Without the Blessing from GOD, you can study throughout your life and never be Wise. Pray for the Light to see and have the understanding of Truth for with the Light you'll will also, be granted Wisdom. You will not have the Light/Wisdom all at once but, it will come bit by bit as you continue to seek the LORD!
94. Royce, you are so right. I hope there are some people out there who have looked up some things for themselves and seen another perspective thru our comments. I havn't see "the Union" but I'll check it out. "In Pot We Trust" is really good for anyone who wants to learn about the medicinal value. One young woman with cerebral palsey is just amazing! I'm sorry I wasn't here last night to back you up, but I was at a Cannabis Defense Coalition Committee meeting. Anyone who is interested in seeing for themselves how "stoners" are able to function perfectly well are welcome to come to our monthly meeting on the 1st Monday of each month. It's too bad Daniel had some experience with some lazy stupid tokers, and he has set his mind against all reason on the subject. His ignorance is apparent to all. He should come to Hempfest this summer and see all the stages and booths the lazy stoners have constructed and see what 200,000 stoned people look like. I guarantee you it would a different story with a bunch of drunks! I have known several people who ruined there lives with alcohol addiction, yet I also know many who are social drinkers and it isn't an issue whatsoever for them. People like Daniel who like to judge others in ignorance, favor punishment over compassion, and then quote the bible, are to be pitied. What a sad little creature! Keep up the good work Royce!
95. Mary...You and Royce are hands down Liberals and believe in the partaking of Marijuana Nirvana. Perhaps, you should do some really serious research of your own and find out what percentage of Marijuana users are still alive and functional at the age of seventy, living successfully outside of assisted living housing and nursing homes compared to those who didn't indulge. You may be sadly surprise at your findings.
96. @95 - Daniel, please cite a source.
97. Here is a good video for folks to watch. It is a washington state made video, that is very informative and is full of good facts on Marijuana. Its about a half an hour long.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1156862632967780733&ei=0Md0S8jbH4maqQPsyumiBw&q=Marijuana&hl=en#