1. Something I've never heard discussed is how much money is spent on housing criminals. I could be wrong, but there seems to be a disturbing trend toward making criminals "customers". The prisons have fantastic services in Washington, with a solid three meals and carpeted rooms, television and libraries. Criminals get long sentences, then commit more crimes when released in order to get right back in. We have rotten recidivism in this country. We need to take a page from the book of other "less prosperous" countries, where jails are concrete block, beancurd is served 3x per day, sentences are relatively short and when people get released then NEVER make the same mistake again.
2. "You, taxpayer, have been the problem."
No, YOU, VOTER, have been and still are the problem. We can't expect anything different from Olympia by continuing to elect the same people. All they know is tax and spend. The problem is those voters who exist on state entitlements may by now outnumber voters who want change. If this is the case this state will soon join California as toast.
3. Yeah...Just wait until hyperinflation kicks in to cover this Nation's unsustainable debt. Wait until the peoples' earnings and entitlements are worth next to nothing. Wait until the peoples' rage drives them to the streets. When this occurs, our corrupt leaders may find their lives in peril.
4. This is why I don't take Democrats seriously. They have a lurid and highly marketed, if defective ideology, and they do pop up like moles for a time. But in the end, they always do themselves in with ridiculous plans that are economically self-destructive.
It's only a matter of time before everyone can see that the Democrat Emperors in Olympia are not wearing any clothes.
5. For actuaries, statisticians, educators, students and researchers: I have put one of the most comprehensive link lists for hundreds of thousands of statistical sources and indicators (economics, demographics, health etc.) on my blog:
Statistics Reference List. And what I find most fascinating is how data can be visualised nowadays with the graphical computing power of modern PCs, as in many of the dozens of examples in these
Data Visualisation References. If you miss anything that I might be able to find for you or if you yourself want to share a resource, please leave a comment.
6. GV - Sounds like you've been in prison here AND overseas. What crime did you do to get in?
7. There are a multitude of 'choices' on this planet, as places to live and governments (or lack thereof) to live under. Statistics are showing that the so called 'minorities' are taking over, at least in terms of 'voting power'.
Unless you are willing to go along to get along (to a certain degree) - suggest you excerise your right to re-settle ANY where you please. Fact is, as bad as you think this country is, it's not so bad as to choose somewhere else. Historically (in my view) this county has be equally as good or 'as bad' (althought I've NEVER thought it bad...EVER) under both political administrations and power. I've lived elsewhere and experienced this first hand and I'm sick of the whiiiiiiiining ways of, quite frankly BOTH political constituiences. Do your best to make this a better place and STFU. :)
8. The liberals/progressives now in office in Washington State and at the federal level are compelled to ensure that the entitlements they are proposing become law. That's because if they are ever voted out of office, they will find themselves looking for work in the real world and they don't dare put their political experience on any kind of resume after all the damage they caused. They will be in desperate need of all those entitlements for the rest of their lives.
9. Fred, it sounds like you are unable to comprehend my important inquiry into reforming our court and prison system. Why are we the sheeple not questioning the fact that we spend an extraordinary amount of money keeping people in relatively luxurious jails, and fail to ponder why criminals repeatedly go right back in after release? Any sensible input?
I'll answer your question with a two part response:
1. I visited the Issaquah jail when it was first opened. They had a public tour. Taxpayers paid a fortune for this small jail. The jail warden described the meals served, I saw the accomodation and it was nicer than any hotel in Issaquah. I think jails all over America are far too comfortable, and this leads to recidivism. Statistics don't lie, compare American recidivism with other countries. Prisons are a scam on the taxpayer.
2. Years ago I worked at a US embassy overseas. I helped deliver aid to Americans imprisoned there. I would not doubt if the tax burden cost per capita to run those prisons is 1% of what we spend. They issue shorter sentences, and like I said--when people get out they are truly reformed because very few EVER get jail sentences again. Think about it if you're able.
In this time of skyrocketing budget cost, we need to examine the absurd cost of our prisons, and the ridiculous fact that so many criminals go right back in after release.
10. Your Right!...Duffman. We should never complain. We should never take a stand. We should simply, move somewhere else. We should never question Big Government but, to always be their obedient slave. We should all be compliant servants to will of Big Government. We should stand opposite of the premises of our founding fathers to the right to Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. We should reduce ourselves to being Liberal Dolts.
11. Totally agree with GV in this regard. Our company has a group of volunteers who go out and police (clean-up) designated streets and roadsides. WHY CAN'T THE PRISIONERS DO THAT. Our jail and prison system should be run as Sheriff Arpayo (Maricopa Co, AZ) runs his, and then may be those who experience it wouldn't want to go back.
It's just fricken UNreal how we treat these prisoners. We've got to get away from the extremes of political correctness and realize that in the long run it ain't working...and it's costing us more and more all the time. There IS and WILL BE a breaking point; let's not doubt that.
12. Duffman, total public debt as a percent of GDP averaged around 60% during the Bush years, which is pretty close to what it was during the Clinton "boom" years. Last year, it ballooned to 83% and 2010 is estimated at 94%. It's quite simple, Obama and the Democrats are raping the Treasury.
13. #10 Thanks for agreeing with me; I knew you'd see it that way too. :)
14. Saw a great sticker on a car this weekend in Coupeville (on beautiful Whidbey Island). It read:
"Republicans believe every day is the 4th of July, Democrats believe every day is April 15th. It's not right vs. left, it is right vs. wrong".
Tax on. . . tax on.
15. Palouse, we must not complain about our leaders driving us into insolvency. Duffman says we're supposed to find another country.
He urges us to "make this a better place" and also urges us to shut up. I guess shutting up makes things better.
16. The Duke:
It might not fit on a bumper sticker, but a more representative analogy might be:
"Republicans believe every day is the 4th of July.
Democrats believe Republicans should assume every day is April 15, so Democrats can live as if every day was Christmas."
17. Duke@14 writes,
"Republicans believe every day is the 4th of July, Democrats believe every day is April 15th."
Excellent point! We pay taxes to run government -- our society's way of acting in unison -- throughout the year, and on April 15th we figure out how to fairly allocate those costs. On the 4th of July people get drunk and explode things. I wonder which date is more important to our nation's success...
18. See, liberals admit that tax day is more important than Independence Day, because independence is not what they want. Too hard, you see.
19. Oh, and Bruce, Republicans pay taxes. Democrats don't. They get cabinet appointments.
20. John Carlson told about HSA's in Indiana on his program. They put $2750.00 in each state workers account that signed up. They were also covered with catastrophic insurance and believe there was a middle coverage in there too. Five years ago 4% of state workers signed up for HSA's. Now it is up to 70% and saving the state hundreds of millions. Hint, hint. The big stumbling block in Olympia are unions. HSA's have been put in per a preliminary action. Dont recall what would be needed activate it except to rid the state workers of unions. Fat chance.
21. John Carlson told about HSA's in Indiana on his program. They put $2750.00 in each state workers account that signed up. They were also covered with catastrophic insurance and believe there was a middle coverage in there too. Five years ago 4% of state workers signed up for HSA's. Now it is up to 70% and saving the state hundreds of millions. Hint, hint. The big stumbling block in Olympia are unions. HSA's have been put in per a preliminary action. Dont recall what would be needed activate it except to rid the state workers of unions. Fat chance.
22. Bruce @ 17:
on April 15th we figure out how to fairly allocate those costs
Hmm... Someone must be using the 1040EZ form if it only takes them a day to figure out their taxes. Doesn't sound like a very productive member of society there. Bet he thinks his "fair share" is an earned credit where he receives more back than he pays in.
The only "fair" tax is a head tax!
23. Once again, the government elected by Washington state's voters is not doing what Sound Politics wants. Boo hoo.
Most of us understand that not all debt is created equally. Debt incurred to improve public infrastructure is justified; debt incurred to blow stuff up in Iraq is not. Since "conservatives" of our day spend our money like their diapered senator in a whore-house, we may as well get something for it.
24. tensor, what about blowing stuff up in Afghanistan?
25. "Public infrastructure" must be Dimocrat code for massive increases in welfare programs, government services for illegal aliens, payola to unions, free healthcare for indolents, etc.
26. Tensor,
Run the math - you'll find that if we assign all the cost of the Iraq war to simply subsidizing oil for commuting, you'll find it works out to about $4/trip for the average commuter. A bit less than we subsidize each bus rider and MUCH less than we subsidize each light rail rider...
27. Please remember that not all state employees are unionized, and not all state employees support Queen Christine.
28. Hey, let's just do what New York wants to do:
====
Gov. Paterson said yesterday the feds have to help bail out cash-starved New York to help plug the more than $9 billion budget gap facing the state.
"We are struggling for survival to close this budget deficit," Paterson said during a town-hall meeting in White Plains, his second budget-focused event in the past week.
He added: "There is going to have to be federal relief here."
====
What do ya all say... do you want to bail out that other Blue state with our money? What, did New York blow stuff up in Iraq? Is that why they're broke?
I almost hate to ask this, but do you liberals know why we have states?
29. Michael H,
Thanks for being one of the honorable public servants who works for a non-union part of government. A part of government that is not using the force of government in collusion with Democrat politicians to establish a benefit package that is so fantastic and unrealistic that no one in the private sector could ever get. And not using that same government at the taxpayers expense to provide those benefits. And for not abusing that government for special favors, so that en masse with other unionized government employees, it becomes our bankrupt government, that is unable to provide for real needs of the citizens, such as fire fighters, roads, etc. And for not abusing that government so that the only option for all is to pay more, and get less.
And lastly, for not abusing the force of government as to artificially set unrealistic standards of living and benefits that raises inflation and the cost of goods and services for all, even in the private sector.
Too bad there is a growing number of those unlike you Michael, who, view a government job as hitting the lottery, instead of something that is merely a necessary service, and can not, nor never will be a net production for our nation.
30. If I were Michael I'd make sure all his friends, neighbors, etc. know he's a regular taxpayer, and not one of the parasitic class of union thugs that view taxpayers only as a cash cow to be milked dry.
I sense a real backlash against government unions coming soon. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it gets very, very ugly.
31. This Evergreen Foundation Report is very frustrating. The only meaningful comment is that the wages paid to sate employees are too high.
Since I do work for the State, I will not make any effort to defend WA employment practices.
As a citizen, I really feel poorly informed. Even if our payments to state employees are too high, what then? Aren't these contracts? Can they be violated?
Where does the tax dollar actually go?
Here are some hard ass questions:
1. We find a lot of college and university education. Schools at that level here are rated well.
How much does this actually cost us all per student? per degree?
What happens to our graduates? Are we spending money to educate kids i fields that do not lead to employment?
2. We are also spending a huge amount on prisons.
What does it cost us per prisoner?
How many of our prisoners are in prison as punishment and how many there to protect the rest of us?
3, Are we creating long term debts by deferring needed infrastructure costs?
32. SJ @ 31:
The only meaningful comment is that the wages paid to sate employees are too high.
Sorry, SJ, but I think you are poorly informed due to your lack of reading comprehension. How did you miss these (as well as many other) meaningful comments in the report?!?
This year the governor said our state had another $2.8 billion budget shortfall. ... Yet the final proposals look like this: the Senate proposed budgets that would raise total spending by $2.95 billion and the House proposed budgets would raise spending by $2.7 billion. [emphasis in original]
[National Governors Association] Chairman and Vermont Governor Jim Douglas believes the worst [in state budget deficits] is probably yet to come.
Rather than fundamentally reshaping government to reflect declining state revenues for some time to come, [WA state] legislators are relying on accounting gimmicks, one-time funds, and federal stimulus money to balance the budget. In the process, they are artificially propping up a higher level of spending that can't be supported by the economy in the near-to-medium future.
33. SJ @ 31:
The only meaningful comment is that the wages paid to sate employees are too high.
Sorry, SJ, but I think you are poorly informed due to your lack of reading comprehension. How did you miss these (as well as many other) meaningful comments in the report?!?
This year the governor said our state had another $2.8 billion budget shortfall. ... Yet the final proposals look like this: the Senate proposed budgets that would raise total spending by $2.95 billion and the House proposed budgets would raise spending by $2.7 billion. [emphasis in original]
[National Governors Association] Chairman and Vermont Governor Jim Douglas believes the worst [in state budget deficits] is probably yet to come.
Rather than fundamentally reshaping government to reflect declining state revenues for some time to come, [WA state] legislators are relying on accounting gimmicks, one-time funds, and federal stimulus money to balance the budget. In the process, they are artificially propping up a higher level of spending that can't be supported by the economy in the near-to-medium future.
34. Hey, can I just be "deemed" to have paid my taxes instead of actually sending the money?????? I'd go for that.
35. Good idea, katomar. Hell, in other states the refunds are not being sent to people who over-paid their taxes. If it's chaos the government wants, perhaps it will get it.
36. John Thune sums up this Democrat Congress:
"We've gone from passing bills without reading them to passing bills without voting one them."
37. Way to go Ron.
The State Employees WAGES, BENEFITS & PAID TIME-OFF are the majority of the Budget and nothing is cut because the Unions OWN Gregoire and the Union Democrat legislature.
Excellent work by EFF as well.
Need to stay focused on THIS.
No need for other Rabbit Trails.
When voters look at this Website
http://www.biaw.com/WAStateEmployeeWages.aspx
And see things like 663 Dept of Ecology Employees with TOTAL COMPENSATION over $99,000/yr., they ought to go nuts.
This is the truth that the Unions desperately want to avoid discussing.
Keep the floodlight on it Ron.
The Unions response early on was if State Employees take a cut IT WILL HURT THE ECONOMY WORSE! WTF!!!
Give me the money and let me spend it...or let taxpayers keep more of their money and spend it.
The Unions are bold & abrasive....and in big trouble if voters stay focused on the ultimate RIP-OFF of public money.
I said a month or 2 ago that cutting Salaries 10% and benefits/paid time-off by 20% will cut the deficit by $1.25 BILLION...plus allow lay-offs once employees start getting less than 44 days off with pay for Vacation, Sick Leave, Holidays & Personal Leave.
It's out of control
38. Yeah...Just wait until hyperinflation kicks in to cover this Nation's unsustainable debt.
Posted by: Daniel on March 15, 2010 10:08 AM
Daniel--
The Dummocrats cannot inflate their way out of the mess they have created because so many wages, pensions and other costs are tied to cost of living. State Employees are insulated from any negative impacts of the economy.
And as Obam-Mao has shown, since Washington cannot borrow money to balance the Budget...the l'il messiah Obam-Mao will do it for Gregoire and the Union Democrats.
Ponzi scheme for sure.
39. @38, Mr. Cynical...I appreciate your position and wish that hyperinflation will not occur because, the pay/entitlements will not be allowed to compromise the earnings of this State's Union/Government employees. The reality is, you can only play the Ponzi Scheme so long. The Nation will need to print a far greater amount of monies to support it's debt than, the Nation is earning in order to keep up with the tremendous suicidal insane Spending by the States and Federal Governments. At the tremendous rate our Governments are spending, hyperinflation cannot help but occur. It is a simple matter of math and not about hope, dues/favors owed or anything else. Look how Gold is soaring and Oil is rising as well. When, any Government spends more than a Nation earns, the results is inflationary. In our case, the spending is so Insane, the value of the Dollar is and will continue to go down faster and faster til we are at hyperinflation levels. Maybe, its time to think about digging up our yards to plant Survival Gardens?
40. Daniel--
I'm totally with you.
I didn't mean to imply hyperinflation will NOT occur. It very likely will.
What I meant is that it simply will not solve the debt problem because of all the Salary/Benefit Government packages tied to the rate of inflation.
We have a place with acreage in Montana.
I have 6 neighbors within a couple miles and we all get along great.
Frankly, we could survive without much government.
We have a wood stove and 9 cords of firewood to both heat and cook on. Propane generator and gas generator for light, wellpump & freezers.
12' X 15' Pantry & root celler in basement that is always cool and filled with canned fruit & veggies, potatoes, beets....elk jerky.
Wine cellar.....very important.
We could survive for a loooong time.
The Seattle Atheist Progressives would start crying in about 2 days without government wiping their a$$.
It really doesn't take much to prepare for the worst without becoming excessive about it.
41. You would be overwhelmed in no time at all by those who want what you have. They would find you and take it from you.
42. @40, Mr. Cynical...I admire your resources. However, the vast majority do not have access to such resources. They may have only their yards to dig up if they have even that. I certainly hope it doesn't come down to hyperinflation and a real change of policy Nationwide from irresponsible spending/conduct to responsible spending which would include spending cuts, as well as, reduction in the size of Government including Tax cuts. That being done, through the election process beginning this November hopefully, this spending insanity can be curtailed and even reversed.
Reality, does have a point. When, people begin screaming for Bread...Chaos will result.
43. Yep, and then it becomes survival of the fiercest, with no one to call and no one to care.
44. Wondering why only one post in three days at SP during these troubled times. Lack of red meat?
45. Probably awaiting the next 'impactful' headline. "Pelosi gets health bill thru...POTUS to sign...DONE DEAL"
And, the topics and posts will be plentiful. :)
46. Headline: "Premiums to drop 3,000%!"
That's a good deal, isn't it Duffman?
47. " Headline: "Premiums to drop 3,000%!""
Yes, and in all 57 states as I understand it.
"You would be overwhelmed in no time at all by those who want what you have. They would find you and take it from you."
They might get some of Cynical's stash, but I'm guessing they'd have to wade through a storm of lead first.
"@40, Mr. Cynical...I admire your resources. However, the vast majority do not have access to such resources."
Certainly you do, Daniel. You don't have to raise your own food, you can buy it prepared (or unprepared) and create your own storehouse. You can also set up a generator for the lights and freezer and fill large containers of water. No excuse for not being prepared for short-term (one-month or less) natural or man-made disasters.
48. The 'point' I was trying to make is that of course it's frugal and wise to have an emergency 'stash' (so to speak), but thinking that one can isolate, hermit and hoard when others in the area may be starving and do it thru the threat of being armed to the teeth will only buy you 'possibly' a bit more time. There will always be other's with bigger and more powerful weapons and tragically 'more ruthless'.
So, we must have government, at least to some extent or we have chaos...and if we have chaos your chances decrease to no better than 50/50.
:), now you'all have a nice day 'ya hear.
49. #48 "So, we must have government, at least to some extent or we have chaos..."
Duffman, you've tipped it over. Too much government will also achieve chaos. They are creating laws that people are not required to follow.
At some point it comes apart.
50. #49 I agree with that. It's all in the relative definition of what 'too much' is.
51. #50. And yet you still want the United States federal government to take over the health care industry. What is "too much" for you?
52. Private doctors, private hospitals, private insurance -- funny sounding "government takeover."
53. And you also want the government to take over the health care industry, John.
54. Private doctors, private hospitals, private insurance. Where's the takeover, Gary?
Fear, not facts.
55. John. Read what I wrote.
56. I read what you wrote in post #53 where you lied about my position. Like usual, you have no substance.
57. Oh, you are now opposed to single-payer. Good.
58. "Private doctors, private hospitals, private insurance."
Yeah, and a government that taxes those who work to pay for healthcare for those who have chosen not to work and those who are in this country illegally. That same government will also determine who has access to such care and who doesn't. And that's just the beginning.
59. @47 Let's get REAL!...Saltherring. If there is hyperinflation where money is next to worthless such a, condition will not be reversed in a mere month or so. Everybody will not be fully prepared. Yes, some will be prepared for maybe, a few months but, not for the long haul. Almost all, will not be prepared for the long haul. Again, we are not talking about a month or less. We are talking about Nationwide famine. It is not only myself that I'm concerned about, it is also, the others who will be marauding the streets screaming for Bread. It is the others who will invade the property of others to take what they can and the resulting breakdown of the Rule of Law. When, things crash to that level...Do you think there will be other Nations providing help? I don't think so. By that time, you may find we have Zimbabwe conditions World Wide.
However hopefully, I don't think such conditions will occur in the near future, but it is Biblical predicted to happen in the end times.
60. 58, you didn't even make an argument, just assertions. You claim that illegal immigrants are covered -- contrary to every independent fact check -- but don't even try to prove it. You claim that the "government" will also determine who has access to health care -- not true -- and cite nothing to prove it. Bravo. I'm swung.
61. John Jensen: Listen carefully, now. When illegal immigrants can go to the emergency room and be treated for free for anything from a common cold to a heart attack, then, yes, they are in effect covered.
62. Liberals, I ask again. I've asked may times. How will the states pay for the expanded Medicaid burden after this reform passes? We see that Walgreens will no longer accept new Medicaid patients because they already don't make any money from it.
Please tell me how that will be funded.
Thanks.
63. Gary: It's very convoluted. Dems will have to either force Walgreens to become a not-for-profit, or Walgreens could turn to an all volunteer work force, or maybe just in the pharmacy, and that might help defray the costs of medicaid prescriptions, at least while there are still private policies to also offset some of the cost. However, at the same time, our progressive geniuses would have to think of some way to make up wages for those "volunteer" workers, so they would have to extend unemployment benefits to them indefinitely. Have I covered everything?
64. katomar, yes. And ultimately they will have to build a wall to keep the producers from fleeing the state.
Sounds familiar...
65. Well, ultimately no producers will exist at all! The system will be self-fulfilling and self-perpetuating. We will all just hand money over to the next person in line, and it never ends, and never comes back to the poor first person in line! Population control at its finest.
66. #52 "Private doctors, private hospitals, private insurance -- funny sounding "government takeover."
Joe Biden today:
"You know we're going to control the insurance companies."
Private, John?
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68. Jensen's being an idiot, as usual. He knows that whether something is private is unrelated to whether gov't is taking it over. General Motors is an obvious example, but you don't have to have government own a private company in order for the government to take it over.
Under the bill, government will cap insurance prices, cap insurance company profits, provide both minimum and maximum insurance company services, require everyone to buy insurance ... to say this isn't a government takeover is about the dumbest thing anyone can say about anything.
69. I was in the private sector for a couple of decades. I am now (and have been five years) a state employee. I work for the state prison system.
I am a big fan of this site - but come on folks - put the blame where it belongs.
The Governor and the unions are joined at the hip. The state employees had no say in whether or not they had to join. Don't blame that on the state employees.
Just because someone works for the state, that does not make them a slacker, a democrat, pro union, dishonest or unethical.
Some state workers are over paid. Some should be fired for being slackers and are protected by the unions. The unions have created an environment of "us and them" that will continue to divide the work force across the country if it isn't stopped.
It's no different at Boeing.
I'm not saying that things are being run well - I am just asking that you take a closer look at where the system needs to be fixed and asking that you not villify everyone that works for the state. Some of us are probably doing exactly what you would want us to do - working our tails off, taking work home at night and doing it on weekends and during our vacations - trying to do a good job - because it's the right thing to do.
By the way - for the poster way above - the Issaquah jail is not a state jail. If you want to talk about how prisoners are - or should be treated - get the ACLU out of the picture.