Comment on Entry: New Idea for More Effective Government, authored by pudge
1. Excellent! I hereby nominate thee as Minister Of Minutia. :)

Posted by Duffman at July 27, 2010 12:49 PM
2. Amusing that you feel that liberals have no interest in supporting civil liberties. Ironically, many conservatives blame liberals for supporting the American Civil Liberties Union. I suppose they'd say that the ACLU doesn't really support civil liberties, but they'd be wrong.

Posted by Bruce at July 27, 2010 12:56 PM
3. Bruce: Amusing that you feel that liberals have no interest in supporting civil liberties.

I didn't say that. "Civil libertarians" are not the same as "people who have an interest in supporting civil liberties."

The key is that it has to be the goal in and of itself, and higher than all, or most, other goals, not merely something you do when you have nothing else more important. Many liberals, for example, say "I support civil liberties," but they also have no problem superceding those very liberties -- with repressive zoning laws, hate speech bans, gun bans, and so on -- when they find something that they have a greater interest in (which is often).

Many conservatives also do not put liberty at the top. We see this, for example, in the liquor privatization debate. Some conservatives are against one or both proposals because they see it as hurting some businesses, or decreasing revenue, and so on, while other conservatives are for it just because it's the right thing to do according to the principles of liberty.

Without saying either side is right or wrong, it's clear that most liberals don't care about "liberty" in this debate as much as they care about other concerns: fiscal, social, and so on. And many conservatives follow suit, for both similar and different reasons. But civil libertarians say, "no, liberty dictates this should be private."

And frankly, Bruce, I think this is all fairly obvious.

Posted by pudge at July 27, 2010 01:09 PM
4. So,
you spend time thinking about how to have a more effective government and you come up with 3 more government bureaucracies with broad scope and you are proud of it and don't see how stupid the whole silly notion is.

Posted by RealCon at July 27, 2010 02:03 PM
5. RealCon: you spend time thinking about how to have a more effective government

No, not really. Not in this case, anyway.


... and you come up with 3 more government bureaucracies

Absolutely not. The Ministers would be essentially standalone positions, with a constitutionally limited small staff to simply gather information, read mail, handle scheduling.


... with broad scope

Of course. That's the only way they can do any good.


... and you are proud of it

Of course not. Don't be daft.


... and don't see how stupid the whole silly notion is.

Riiiiiiiiiight.

Posted by pudge at July 27, 2010 02:14 PM
6. @#3, RealCon,

You need a humor transplant, stat.

Posted by FurryGuyJeans at July 27, 2010 02:40 PM
7. Methinks that if we had a Minister of Shut Up, Bush Jr. never would have been allowed to talk...

Posted by anc at July 27, 2010 03:23 PM
8. anc: certainly, some of what Bush said would have been stopped. But even more of what Kerry, Gore, Edwards, Biden, etc. said would have been stopped.

Posted by pudge at July 27, 2010 03:49 PM
9. But even more of what Kerry, Gore, Edwards, Biden, etc. said would have been stopped.

And especially Barney Frank.

Also, I would rename it Minister of STFU.

Posted by Palouse at July 27, 2010 08:17 PM
10. #8: lol, Biden wouldn't be thought of as such a goob if he'd been wise enough to get himself a "Minister of Shut Up". He should've hired one back during the primaries. There is no bigger buffoon in DC than Biden. Not even Patty Murray beats him in that regard.

Posted by Michele at July 27, 2010 11:40 PM
11. Anyone running for public office should be required to undergo a battery of intensive psychological evaluations and character analysis. Keep the sociopaths out of government. In addition, they should also be required to pass an exam on the U.S. Constitution with a grade of 95 percent or better and be able to balance a checkbook. Problem is, only Jesus would qualify.

Posted by Jack at July 28, 2010 08:19 AM
12. You have problem with that amigo? -Jesus

Posted by J.Hernandez at July 28, 2010 08:26 AM
13. Jack: but who would conduct those evaluations? Government? :)

And yes, there is no honest man, and we shouldn't strive to find one. We should have a system of openness and accountability, that assumes man is NOT honest, rather than vainly hope that we'll find someone who is.

Posted by pudge at July 28, 2010 08:26 AM
14. 13. "...but who would conduct those evaluations? Government?"

Why Pudge, it would have to be the Minister of Honesty, Openness, and Accountability of course. : )

Posted by Jack at July 28, 2010 09:45 AM
15. pudge needs to stop smoking that shit.

Posted by Doug Smith at July 28, 2010 12:07 PM
16. @10: anc: certainly, some of what Bush said would have been stopped. But even more of what Kerry, Gore, Edwards, Biden, etc. said would have been stopped.

Pffft. Republicans are equally as bad with shovelling the bullcrap. It's pure partisanship to assume otherwise.

Posted by anc at July 28, 2010 01:13 PM
17. anc: Republicans are equally as bad with shovelling the bullcrap.

I've never attempted to quantify the two parties, but even if true, so what? I just said those Democrats I mentioned (not all Democrats) are much worse than Bush (not all Republicans). Certainly you don't deny this ... ?

Posted by pudge at July 28, 2010 03:04 PM
18. @17: I just said those Democrats I mentioned (not all Democrats) are much worse than Bush (not all Republicans). Certainly you don't deny this ... ?

I'm fascinated as to how you'd be quantifying this in an unbiased way... given that you're hardly unbiased. :)

Posted by anc at July 28, 2010 03:41 PM
19. ANC: And what is wrong with partisanship? Seriously. Partisanship is part of what provides checks and balances in governance. Nothing wrong with having your opinions, ideology, passions, nothing wrong at all. That doesn't mean that all people will agree with you, nor should they. It's why we have elections, to "hopefully" clean house every once in a while, switch the balance, mix things up, and then do it all over again, like clockwork.

Posted by katomar at July 28, 2010 05:40 PM
20. Sorry Pudge, but those ideas might have worked in that country called America, but sadly, that country is gone. Maybe in another 100 years liberty and freedom will be on the uptick again.

Posted by Reality at July 28, 2010 08:27 PM
21. The Minister of Preventing Stupid and Costly Wars should only be voted on by people who are currently in the military who are not officers.

Or perhaps only men between the ages of 18 and 25 should be allowed to vote on this one.

Oh, and then we should also insist that Congress pass an actual, formal declaration of war.

Oh, and then all those in favor of the Iraq and Afghan wars would thereby be disqualified from voting for the Fiscal Responsibility Tzar.

Posted by Bruce Guthrie at July 29, 2010 02:03 AM
22. >>There's also a Minister of Liberty who has the power to overturn or restrict any government action that violates civil liberties, and a Minister of Financial Responsibility that can veto any spending that isn't covered by revenues.

Would that have retroactively extended to NSA illegally wiretapping AT&T and war spending for Iraq/Afghanistan circa from 2002ish?

Posted by Joe Szilagyi at July 29, 2010 05:15 AM
23. Bruce Guthrie: you're a bit confused on a few points. :-)

First, most of the non-officers supported both wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Plus, I have a fundamental problem with the military -- even if just non-officers -- getting to dictate military policy, though I certainly believe your idea has some appeal.

Second, you appear to be referring to Selective Service, and the Minister of Liberty would end that anyway.

Third, you appear to think that the Constitution requires any declaration of war, ever, for any action. This is untrue. It simply says that IF there is a declaration of war, it must come from Congress.

Fourth, I already said you'd only get to vote for one Minister anyway!

So I can't agree with your idea, or its reasons. But it's fun to think about. :-)

Posted by pudge at July 29, 2010 06:51 AM
24. Joe Szilagyi: first, of course it cannot extend retroactively. We don't have reverse time travel, silly. But as I was against the Bush/Obama wiretapping from the beginning, I certainly think it should be stopped now.

And the Minister of Financial Responsibility would not have purview over war spending directly; if you mean he could able to force cuts or revenue increases to pay for it, that depends. Obviously an emergency response to a national security threat, such as with the invasion of Afghanistan, is not going to be seriously subject to financial considerations.

Iraq was also arguably a necessary response to a national security threat, but there's little evidence that it was an emergency -- that an immediate response was needed -- so there's an obvious fiscal case to be made that we should have found a way to pay for it before engaging in it, not to mention questioning the way it was engaged in (though I would hope the Minister of Fiscal Responsibility, like the Supreme Court, does not engage in deal-making, but simply says yes/no in regard to proposed or existing actions).

Posted by pudge at July 29, 2010 06:59 AM
25. Actually I'm more for the "starship troopers" approach. National service = citizenship = voting rights.

Posted by Crusader at July 29, 2010 08:42 AM
26. Crusader: I engage in national service every day. I do a job, providing desirable services to millions of Americans, and pay a bunch of my money in taxes, used by millions more. Not to mention all the other things I do for others.

Of course, even if I lived in cave and helped no one, the problem is that I have an unalienable right to liberty. This necessarily means that if there is a government over me, I have a right to have a part in selecting that government. The right to vote at some level for the government in the country of my birth is itself unalienable.

Posted by pudge at July 29, 2010 09:52 AM
27. No more Ministers. Let's knock the federal gov't into about 10,000 pieces and turn it over to the Counties. The Fed should run the military... AND THAT'S ABOUT IT. If the governments didn't have their boot on the necks of the oil business, there wouldn't have been a Gulf spill, and if there had been, it would have been cleaned up by now.

Posted by Basho at July 29, 2010 12:14 PM
28. #10: Well, you beat me to it. But I think Biden would have to just not talk at all. I mean, he hardly ever makes a public appearance without ending up with his size 10 firmly in his own pie hole. But then, maybe the loss would be ours. I loved his pre-election spelling lesson: "...three little letters.....J-O-B-S...." Go Joe!

Oh, and also, I propose the Ministry of Elimination of Political Correctness. It would need to be large. Very large.

Posted by Zarro at July 29, 2010 08:04 PM
29. I do like Zarros idea for political correctness long overdue!!

Posted by Laurie at July 30, 2010 06:30 AM
30. LOL - what a great idea! Equally amusing as the original post was the 'thoughtful' commentary, as if this was an actual bill being debated on the floor. Perhaps this site needs a STFU Minister. But then, that wouldn't be very democratic no would it.

Posted by D Doyle at July 30, 2010 05:49 PM
31. Here's one for the annals;

"We want to work with Arizona. I understand the frustration of people in Arizona. But what we can't do is demagogue the issue," Obama said in an interview with CBS, according to excerpts released by the network.

So what he is saying is that no one can demagogue this issue except Barack Hussein Obama, because that is what he has been doing all along. Can you say anarchist-in-chief ?

Posted by KDS at July 31, 2010 04:36 PM
32. KDS @ 31: I really wish Obama WERE an anarchist. Then he'd be working to make the government smaller across the board.

But as we all know, he is working to make it bigger across the board, including the military. But then we all know that "war is the health of the state."

And your observation about Obama's demagoguery is right on target!

Posted by Bruce Guthrie at August 1, 2010 09:01 PM
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