1. What's the alternative? You could cut spending but that would make you look heartless to the less fortunate, or you could raise taxes. When this state had Republican Governors, they raised taxes instead of cutting government too. Sorry, only a bold change of direction would save this state but Republicans in this state believe to get re-elected they have to act almost like the Democrats. So we don't have any clear choices. Anyone who would present us with a clear choice would be called by the Republican Establishment an extremist (and technically they would be right because it would be more extreme it would move us further away from the status-quo). So of course they would stop anyone who could actually do something positive from actually winning. It's the direction that the state is going that is wrong, and going in the same direction just slower will still harm this state. At least at this speed we can get the pain done with quicker.
2. Two agencies have changed the outlook for Washington's debt ratings from stable to negative, citing the state's ongoing budget troubles.
But, alas, the Governor is more concerned with promoting retarded side issues like gay mariage than closing our states fiscal chasm.
Send in the clowns! Afterall, the democrat party is in full control of this 3 ring circus.
Yeah, those damn Democrats.
Actually this is why I like the Democrats being in control. I get to say "those Damn Democrats" perhaps over a beer or something like that.
Do you really think the Republicans would do any better? Perhaps a little. But a little less bad is still bad.
One doesn't really understand how politics is until they read a lot of incumbent Public Disclosure Financial Records. What they would find out is that incumbents get a lot of money from the same sources. I mean Republicans and Democrats it doesn't matter as long as one is an incumbent.
And in the rare cases (and indeed they are rare) where an incumbent is beaten by a challenger, the first thing the challenger does is goto the donors of the incumbent just defeated in order to give these people the chance of correcting their mistake of backing the wrong person. No hard feelings, just write me the check from now on after all I have a debt to retire.
That is why despite campaign rhetoric you see such uniformity of action among incumbents regardless of party.
So, yeah perhaps, and I say perhaps it would have been a little better if the republicans were in control, perhaps. But since they serve the same donors as the Democrats (and the internet allows you see this for yourself) not much better.
And with the Republicans the problems would be "our fault". But here we can blame it on those "Damn Democrats".
So in the end it is a much better situation in that we can have fun condemning the Democrats than being condemned ourselves.
Evergreen College was established by a REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR.
You are right, Paul, it's like what Joni said. Republicans are different in Washington State. And while I didn't make the connection until you mentioned it, it is probably the unity of donors that you can find throughout incumbents regardless of party, that is the why this is the case.
I prefer divided government with a Republican Governor, because how can anyone can say things are going fine in State Government over the last 20+ years and be taken seriously ?
"So in the end it is a much better situation in that we can have fun condemning the Democrats than being condemned ourselves."
Posted by Paul at January 31, 2012 11:34 AM
Smaller and more limited government is the only thing that will save this state and this country.
I would support any Democrat who runs on that platform, but the only one I know in this state is Tim Sheldon and he is not in my district.
Paul - do pay attention to the definition of insanity why do you like schadenfraude ?
Maybe I misinterpreted that last question I asked and you just preferred to give up on the GOP and be cynical. The national GOP have been wusses and pathetic and do not even bother to exercise any control over Presidential debates - I won't give up as long as the TEA party is an influence. Wait until we become much the same as Europe with bloated government that is unable to be reduced in size because of a government control economy - we aren't that far away and re-electing the narcissist, mentally deranged marxist president who calls himself Obama - that will bring us there with Gov. controlled healthcare - is that what you want ? Be careful what you wish for..
"Smaller and more limited government is the only thing that will save this state..."
You aren't one of those tea party radicals are you? That message is a message that simply can't win (and besides you are likely to get our campaign donors upset).
Politics are the art of the doable. I say the message this year is do the same thing, go the same way we have been going, just do it at a slightly different rate.
Extremists like you are dangerous. I bet you are a racist too! Just like that racist Allen West!
Now my tee time is soon. Need to finish my apple martini. I am golfing with the governor at 1pm. No, no, I am still a Republican but that doesn't mean I can't be friends with the governor.
"Paul - do pay attention to the definition of insanity..."
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again yet expecting a different result.
But then again, really, deep down you don't really care about results do you? I mean results as in changes of public policy. To you elections are all just a sporting event where winning is its own ends and not a means to an ends. It's all about bragging rights. GO team go Fight team fight - GO GOP!
Politics in reality is totally lost on you. Oh there are two parties. There's the incumbent party made up of both Republicans and Democrats who basically get their money from the same sources more or less, and then there's the outsider party.
That's you. Always on the outside. Thinking that by supporting the GOP over and over again, someday things are going to change. Yeah, you know insanity don't you!
You know the things you say now about Obama they were saying about Clinton and no doubt in ten years from now or so there be a new name that we will all hate. Someone right now we haven't even heard of. Look, I am not against hate, but I think hate can often make people overlook things. Clinton leaving office in the long run didn't make things better did it? Nor would just Obama leaving office. There must be something else...
Oh, but I forgot, this is a sporting match for you. In that case rah rah rah gooo TEAM! Oh, the opposing team is on the field booo! Hiss!
Paul is right, you sure know the definition of insanity! You are just going to do the same thing over and over again until your dying day.
KDS you are so right. That Obamacare government healthcare is a BAD idea. Obama mandating healthcare insurance goes against our very liberties.
Instead this what we should do:
WE should mandate healthcare insurance. It's a great idea that only an extremist racist would be against.
Oh, by the way, I am typing this from out on the country club where I and the Governor (no I am still Republican) and our lobbyist friends are playing golf (aren't Iphones great). I would tell you the names of our lobbyist friends, but you wouldn't recognize them by name and that is how they like it.
And Thank God few people ever go to the Public Disclosure Web site and read up on who is donating money to BOTH PARTIES. Most people don't even know that you can actually get the names of these lobbyists there so they wouldn't be as nameless as they like being.
Oh, and keep on supporting the GOP election after election regardless of how many times we disappoint you. After all if you do the same thing over and over again one of these days there got to be a different result, right?
11. Oh, I hope I didn't offend you when I said "Thank God". When I said "God" I meant metaphorically and I wasn't specifically referring to any particular religion or sect within any religion.
12. Christine, you are so lucky that you don't have all those crazy conservatives clinging on to their guns and Bibles that you have to constantly lie to. They really get tiresome. You can just be yourself to your constituents.
13. Oops. I didn't mean to text that here. I was texting a friend of mine. Please ignore my last post.
Regarding ML Brown, what do you expect from a person who is indoctrinated with the Keynesian theory of economics?
We forget the intellectual giants in economics like Milton Friedman, who as I recall received the Nobel Prize in economics for his work that refuted Keynes' theory. Here is a link to a video clip from an interview in 1979 when Friedman was asked about economic greed that less to the maldistribution of wealth:
Greed as used by liberals is designed to deflect guilt from their greed that results from their governance.
Paul/Steve: If you're going to troll in these waters, the least you can do is stick with one name to post with.
This state (and all of the californicators that made it this way) is off its bubble. Common sense slowly eroded as 52% of our state's population transplanted here from the golden state (Where they fled from after making that state unliveable by way of liberal idealism). Failed politicians with a failed philosophy on cultural and fiscal issues is bound to fail eventually. We are simply following the CA blueprint lined out for us. Is that insanity? You're damned right it is.
Look, Paddy, personally, I am all with you. But to many people your talk seems racist. You have to admit that Freeman was a racist, sexist homophobe, well at least many of his statements come off that way.
I am just saying you need to tone down your language. I am not against what you are saying but there's a right way and a wrong way to say anything. Coming off as a gun touting Bible Thumping Hick won't get Republicans elected.
What will get Republicans elected is sounding just like the Democrats sound, stressing though that we just won't do it "as much".
ME TOO BUT LESS! That's the message for GOP VICTORY in 2012. Paddy, I am sure you have good intentions, but leave this to the professionals like me.
Strange how you forgot to mention why the change occurred. From the article you link to:
Moody's noted that the state's reliance on a sales tax has made it challenging during a recession that has impacted consumer confidence. The agency cited other challenges, including reliance on the cyclical aerospace industry, above-average debt ratios and frequent voter initiatives that add to budget challenges.
californicators? You retract that statement or I will drum you out of the Republican party.
No good has ever come from by tarnishing your political opponent through such hateful language. But I wouldn't expect such racist sexist homophobe like you to understand that.
I want to say as the official voice of the Republican Party that I have nothing but contempt for you, you smelly barefoot toothless brute. We in the Republican party are respectful to our political opponents.
Damn Rick D. Next thing you know he will be calling our President by his full name!
Scumbags like him need to understand that within the Republican Party we are courteous to our political opponents. We always call them Sir and Maam and make sure our voice is always lower than their and make sure that we never look them in the eye. And after we disagree we always apologize for disagreeing and let them know that it wasn't anything personal.
GET IT YOU NEANDERTHAL!
21. Looks like the CnR troll is back, under new names this time. Get a life dude.
Rick D. does not represent the views of the Republican party. We find his words as contemptible as anyone, even more so.
We respect our honorable political opponents who we may find a point or two to have some friendly disagreements with. It isn't personal. Really come to think about it there's not much of a disagreement. They are actually good ideas that We TOO want to adopt just not as quickly or not to the full extent they do, though that could change as well.
Actually come to think of it there is a lot to admire about our political opponents. Not like some of the knuckle draggers I have run into in my own party. In fact, I often cross party lines to vote for my Democrat Friends. But when my people are running, I expect all Republicans to vote for them. Lesser of two evils...Lesser of two evils...
Hey Palouse don't forget the 11th Commandment.
Thou not speak ill of another Republican unless he is a conservative and at no time REVEAL LEFT WING VOTING RECORDS.
In essence I get to call you every nasty name in the book, and you can't respond with factual comments about my public record.
LESSER OF TWO EVILS...ALWAYS VOTE REPUBLICAN. I mean YOU always vote REPUBLICAN and I get to help out my Democrat Friends whenever I want. And if I get a job out of it like Transportation Secretary so much the better.
"I prefer divided government with a Republican Governor, because...
Things were so, so much better under Dan Evans...
Let's not forget that as bad as our Democrat Governors have been, and yeah, they have been bad, but none of them ever had an aide who was a serial killer.
Our Democrat Governors have been bad but so have our Republican Governors.
Spellman raised taxes. I will never forget that! I thought he was going to lower taxes when I voted for him - Nope!
At least when the Democrats are in control I can get fellow conservatives to buy me a beer and we can lament together about those "Damn Democrats".
Somehow "Damn Republicans" just don't have the same ring...
And after all, look at the PDCS. All incumbents in our state get their money from more or less the same groups/companies. So really changing the party affiliation of the people in office doesn't change to a great degree what goes on behind the scenes.
But then again, who wants to do something as boring as looking up campaign donation records or even worse voting records.
It's much more fun to talk about those "DAMN DEMOCRATS".
Nope... no serial killers... just serial tax and spenders... serial union lackies.... serial thugs.... serial slime.
I wonder... is it too late for Brown (or whoever paid for it) to get a refund for her obviously fake degree?
Again, you would see the same thing with the Republicans. In fact with the Republicans who are incumbents you are seeing more or less the same thing. That's what that column by Joni Balter was about, how Republican Politicians in our state act so much like the Democrats ("More enlightened" I believe she said of course I would describe it a little differently). I didn't expect Sound Politics to have mentioned the article because she did just cut too closely to the truth there.
Go to the PDC site and like look at just for example Republican State Senators and Democrat State Senator, Incumbents I mean, and the same donor names start popping up regardless of party. You have to do it across several districts. Pretty soon you will realize that partisanship is for the most part an illusion. It is really not about Republican and Democrat but about the incumbents vs the rest of us. For more or less the same groups fund Republican and Democrat incumbents, more or less. And that's reflected in voting records.
So, perhaps things would be a little better with a Republican, but I doubt it since he has more or less the same groups to answer to as the Democrats.
But with the Democrats in power we get to go "DAMN DEMOCRATS". It really wouldn't be as fun with the Republicans being the ones messing this state up.
All together now "DAMN DEMOCRATS!"
How hard is it to rely upon income tax when you have 9%+ unemployment?
Guess what - when people lose their job they spend less (lower sales tax). Of course, their income is also gone (lower income tax). When there's a recession BOTH sources go away, even when you doltish leftists cry for an income tax.
The solution? Spend less - and don't spend away the rainy day fund (like our Governor and Democrat-controlled Legislature did) when times are good.
"Oh, and keep on supporting the GOP election after election regardless of how many times we disappoint you. After all if you do the same thing over and over again one of these days there got to be a different result, right?"
Posted by CCR at January 31, 2012 01:12 PM
Hey, don't worry. The problem is the corrupt media and the wussified GOP's that try to please the media - the definition of insanity in itself, along with the dumbed down masses who are not curious enough to seek the truth. There is not much choice as the Democratic Party has been co-opted by extremists. There is little discernable difference between today's race-baiting Democratic Party and the Communist/Marxist party.
The reason I don't support Democrats any more should be apparent - a vast majority of the politicians are collectivists and do not support individual freedoms/they'd rather take them away to further their own cause -all about me, me, me. They have all been infected with the Progressive virus, as have many Repubicans. That isn't you, is it CCR ?
I am a progressive Republican. I represent the Mainstream of the Republican party
as well as the Mainstream of America.
You on the other hand Represent the Dangerous Radical Fringe. I hope Homeland Security arrests you someday even if they have to plant evidence to do so. You are just too dangerous to be allowed out there just walking about wherever you want to.
I am a Proud Progressive Republican in the tradition of Theodore Roosevelt, Dan Evans, Ralph Munro, Kay Trepanier, Sid Morrison, and Sam Reed!
You are against Progress? I guess that makes you a REGRESSIVE REPUBLICAN, HUH!
32. 2012 the year we FINALLY GET THOSE DAMN TEA BAGERS OUT OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.
Ha ! Progressives are really Regressives - that monikername is all smoke and mirrors.
Run along now - go play with the Democraps. They less resistant to the statism that you want than the Repubs and while you're there; go teabag a Democrat.
34. I want you to know that while I am a Republican some of my best friends are Democrats. Many times I have voted for Democrats over Republicans and I have even once in a while endorsed Democrats over Republicans in the newspaper. But that doesn't make me less of a Republican! I am a well respected member of the Republican hierarchy in this state.
35. Oh, by the way, just because I have voted against the party candidate from time to time, YOU SHOULD ALWAYS VOTE GOP (when the candidate is someone I approve of). Remember LESSER OF TWO EVILS! Holding ones nose is the GOP Salute!
I don't disagree about your take on Republicans in this state - many are feckless. I'll gladly vote McKenna for Gov. because he is clearly the lesser of two evils. If you differ there, besides being a sheeple, you are being disingenuous.
It is the Democratic leadership that has f***ed up that party. However, why do you disparage the Tea Party ? They want to clean up government and root out corruption. I have friends that are Democrats also. The problem with both parties is corruption; (e.g. Duke Cunningham, Bob Ney, Tom Delay - all Republicans).
There needs to be a decrease in the influence of lobbyists and no more insider trading. When DC is cleaned up, the states will have less of a problem following suit.
Congratulations To Governor Gregoire, Speaker Chopp, And Majority Leader Brown...
Two ratings agencies, Moody's and Fitch, just lowered the state's bond rating.
I'm pretty sure it's George W. Bush's fault.
Yeah, Rob McKenna I love the man. He stands up against his own religion to fight for a woman's right to choose. I mean he is going up against the Pope and all the Cardinals. He reminds me of like a Caroline Kennedy. We could have our own Camelot here in Washington.
By the way I have been chosen to head up the 32nd Anniversary of Washingtonians for Anderson. So if any of you know anyone who worked on that epic 1980 campaign let them know that while we haven't settled on a date yet, we are thinking some time in June. And also people who worked on Anderson's campaign in other states are welcomed too. It is not limited to those who worked in the Washington State Campaign offices though of course I look forward to seeing some of my old friends from that time that I haven't seen in a long time.
It will be in Bellevue because of course Bellevue is the only decent place in Washington but as to specific venue we haven't decided on that either. Just let people know that we are still in the planning stage but more information will available in due course.
39. Hope and Change!
40. Also, I love Rob McKenna's stand on undocumented workers. The Republican Party will not have a future if we don't cater to our Hispanic Hermanos and Hermanas (bothers and sisters for you non-bilingual types). In the words of Governor Rick Perry "Sí se puede". Hey, he may be a racist Bible thumping hick on other issues he sure got it straight about that whole in state tuition thing which not only Texas has but we do here in Washington thanks not only to the support of the Democrats but many Republican politicians voted for this landmark legislation too. Rob McKenna knows it is time we stopped treating these people like second class citizens. His support for undocumented workers goes way back in his political career.
"However, why do you disparage the Tea Party ? "
Have you seen how they dress? Hello? It's 2012 not 1776 or whenever.
They embarrass me!
And unfortunately the only reason they are so mad is because Obama is an African-American. We need to fight this racist image of the GOP, not cater to it.
This is one of the reasons I am so glad that McKenna has embraced the undocumented worker community of our state.
Oh, by the way, just because I support McKenna now it doesn't mean that I don't reserve the right to like stab him in the back at a crucial time of the campaign if I can like negotiate some kind of position in his opponent's administration.
Sure McKenna is good, but his opponent isn't that bad. It would be an honor to serve under either of them.
43. CCR, you do realize that Progressive Republicans (my birth home state of Wisconsin was origin of many, most famously, Fighting Bob LaFollette), was for the Progressive Tax system, education reform (and expansion) and other so called "socialist" devices the Tea Party so hates.
By the way I want to say when I said Bellevue was the only decent place in Washington, I forgot about Mercer Island.
Sorry Mercer Island.
I didn't forget about Kirkland though.
45. CCR, you do realize that Progressive Republicans (my birth home state of Wisconsin was origin of many, most famously, Fighting Bob LaFollette), was for the Progressive Tax system, education reform (and expansion) and other so called "socialist" devices the Tea Party so hates.
Exactly, another good reason to hate those damn Tea Baggers!
Mainstream Americans Must UNITE Against these riff-raft! Join US!
We must bring the Republican Party Back to its Progressive Roots!
KDS: "There needs to be a decrease in the influence of lobbyists..."
Are you kidding? The lobbyists are often the only ones who get things done in government. Some of my best friends are lobbyists.
Without lobbyists who would fund campaigns, give me free Mariner tickets, pay for my golf habit etc?
47. As long as the likes of CCR identify as "Republicans", Democrat's will always have a strong hold on this state. A milquetoast republican is almost as bad if not worse than a staunch (if misguided) liberal in my opinion. Both are worthless if the goad is to actually change the way things are done in both Washingtons.
48. We progressive Republicans, we mainstreamers, have been around the Republican Party long before you tea baggers infiltrated our party, and we will be here long after we have weeded you out from the ranks of the GOP. It all starts this year!
@47 - Spot on !
CCR: Besides being a super-squishy Repubican, are you daft ? This is no laughing matter. Right now, there is too much influence of lobbyists and DC is the best governmemt money can buy. That only invites corruption. Lobbyists are a necessary evil, but their influence must be decreased if this country is going to have any hope of not becoming a welfare state. Abramoff proposed that all politicians in office & their staff should be prohibited from lobbying after their term(s) in office have expired - that is the only way that corruption by lobbyists will decrease.
Get your Mariner tickets the old fashioned way - earn them !
In 31 days King County Republicans get to caucus and nominate some true Republican conservatives; Rob McKenna and Mitt Romney.
Not sure why King County Republicans need to caucus to do this. It is not like there is any alternative choices.
KDS Who says I DON'T EARN THEM?
I have to listen to these Lobbyists. Some of them can be quite the windbags. Blah, blah, blah, write the check already...
I am so glad to have MikeBoyScout as an ally. Rob McKenna and Mitt Romney are TRUE REPUBLICAN CONSERVATIVES. TRUE PROGRESSIVE CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS in the linage of Dan Evans, in the linage of Bob LaFollette, in the image of Teddy Roosevelt!
I am proud to support Mitt Romney and Rob McKenna, well, with Rob of course I support him until and unless I get a better deal from his opponent. In that case I will just steal his mailing list.
You do know KDS that you can find the word "Welfare" in our constitution?
SO, you are against our constitution now KDS. I hope Homeland Security is listening and will lock you up real soon.
53. It is not like there is any alternative choices.
Exactly, Mike (you might want to leave off that uh "Boy Scout" part as they are kind of a controversial organization at this point now that they have gone all Hitler Youth). And this is how we in the Republican Establishment like it. Elections aren't supposed to be about choices. It's about jobs for campaign staff.
So Let us do the Republican Salute! Take your Left hand and place one finger on each side of your nostrils and then squeeze. Meanwhile spread your knees apart and bend over. That's the Republican salute.
"DC is the best government money can buy." Yes, it is and since it is now in Republican control at least the House part of it - all that Money goes to REPUBLICANS.
You don't want the best government money can buy? Perhaps you want government on the cheap?
We need more Lobbyists not fewer. The more lobbyists there are the more they can donate to Republicans!
55. Well not all the money goes to Republicans. It goes to Democrats as well, but there's enough to share the wealth among us. Why be selfish?
56. it is not like there is any alternative choices.
Nope, heads they win, tails you lose. Regardless of who wins the same types of people will be in control. The Lobbyists give to both sides. They know that regardless of the outcome they have covered their bets.
The only way you keep even an ounce of self respect is not to play their game.
Like I said, regardless of who is elected given the choices (lack of) Progressivism/Socialism/Crony Capitalism/Leftism, whatever you want to call it, will be the winner. Regardless of which party wins the election.
And besides, King County has made it completely clear that there will never be another Republican Governor. Which is just as well. Might save some co-ed's life.
Since the same progressive policies will be enacted regardless of party since they are "owned" by more or less the same people, then yeah, let the Damn Democrats have it.
I like saying Damn Democrats better than saying Damn Republicans.
There is no doubt that the Democrats have been taken over by Marxists. But the sad story is that Marxism also has a history in the REPUBLICAN party as early as indeed the party's founding. Find out who Joseph Weydemeyer
was. He was a strong communist in Germany before moving to the United States where he became involved in the Republican Party. So the progressives have been involved in the Republican party from the beginning. And then of course here you have the mention of Progressive Teddy Roosevelt and Bob LaFollette.
Point is it is time that conservatives abandon the Republican party in order to have a party that isn't a co-conspirator in the progressive take over of America. It needs to first start at the state level. A party that only runs candidates in state races. And then perhaps from there move nationwide.
At the very least we know what we have been doing isn't working. And we all know the word for doing the same thing that doesn't work over and over again expecting it to work.
CCR - you have too much time on your hands and make zero points. Troll on, dude. You have no facts to back up the drivel you write - people like you are satisfied with the status quo, so do us a favor and don't vote ? You sound like you don't care who wins anyway. Many lobbyists are corrupt - case and point; Jack Abramoff who bought off about 1/3 of Congress before he went to prison for 3.5 years. Federal Government needs to be downsized significantly. I go along with Paul Ryan's roadmap over the next 10 years; the only way we will survive as a
Paul - There is a lower percentage of damn Republicans (
Sue - I agree with your take. I would vote for a proven conservative Democrat like a Brian Sontaag over a proven liberal Republican like a Dino Rossi. I would be happy if the conservatives and Tea Party subjugated the Republican party and renamed it the Constitutional party - libertarians would come over and let the liberal republicans like CCR and Paul start their own party or become Democrats.
60. Paul - there is a lower % of dam Republicans [less than 95%] than dam Democrats. Besides coping an attitude, you are coping out.
61. Re the downgrade: Somewhere Obama and Christine Gregoire are out together, celebrating their like "accomplishments".
It has been said several times tonight that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. What you see as "cop out" on Paul's part I see as a recognition of the situation as it exist and a rational response to this. Voting for republicans over and over again when they have betrayed us over and over again, that's the insanity.
The truth is that it's the DIRECTION that's the problem. It's the basic underlining assumptions of government.
"Me too but less" which we know will ultimately be the Republican response may make things "less bad" but it won't fix the problems. It will indeed prolong the problems.
So if "me too but less" isn't a good response and in fact by prolonging the situation in some respects make the situation worse, what should the proper response be?
Well, a turn in direction just isn't possible right now. The people aren't ready for it. The only way the people will be ready for it is if things get much worse.
So it looks like dropping out, instead of copping out is actually the best, the most logical, the most SANE response. Just go to the sidelines until the environment is ready for the real solutions.
So, Paul if I ever met you in a bar yeah, I will join you in beer to lament those "Damn Democrats" and as for voting, no if anything I will vote against the Republicans because any Republican who would get elected under this environment will just become in the end a "co-conspirator" because in this environment there is just no way for any Republican to enact necessary change (even if that Republican wanted to which of course is another discussion that some have gotten into but I won't join in at this point). Any Republican at this point would just muddy the waters and deflect responsibility. We need to ensure that when it all does come down it is clear who's to blame, because it certainly wasn't clear who were to blame in 2008 with the economy nationally and in fact I think the wrong people were blamed.
So yeah, it's much better at this point for the people to be Damn Democrats than Damn Republicans. Because you know that even if only a few of the people there were Damn Republicans they would get the bulk of the blame. This way it is perfectly clear who and what is the problem.
If my Legislator is going to act Liberal/progressive/socialist regardless I much rather have that person be a Democrat.
@62 - By your twisted logic, it sounds like you are liberal progressive in denial. If you want things to change, dropping out is not the answer/the same as copping out. You are griping about the state of Government but doing nothing about it - way to go ! What Republicans have you voted for ? There haven't been enough elected in State Government to matter much.
I don't buy your argument - it sounds too contrived.
If you are talking about Presidential, Bush-43 was a disappointment and he opened the door for Obama - the worst President in our lifetime. As I said before and others fail to acknowledge; "I would be happy if the conservatives and Tea Party subjugated the Republican party and renamed it the Constitutional party - libertarians would come over and let the liberal republicans can start their own party or become Democrats." The system is broken and needs to be fixed soon, but it won't happen until the people who are served by these politicians rise up and revolt. It might help if you took your head out of the sand and stop being content about being the victim, if you want things to be different. If you don't why are you wasting your time here ?
Bush 41 opened the way to Bill Clinton - the worse President of our Time (until Obama). What really scares me quite honestly is who Romney would open the door to.
What you fear you are going to get regardless. The only solution is getting a true conservative elected. Anything less is actually counter productive.
But then again, this is probably just like a sporting event to you. Rah Rah Rah GOOO TEAM!
65. "I would be happy if the conservatives and Tea Party subjugated the Republican party" CCR would never allow you to do that. And he/she is much more powerful than you think. You have never come up against him/her so you really don't have a clue. That MikeBoyscout guy is right. They have taken all the choices away from you.
In all honestly KDS before tonight did you even hear of the Mainstream Republicans of Washington State? Do you still not understand what they are about?
Those of us who have been at it much longer than you have seen stuff you can't even imagine.
@65 - that's a bet I'd be willing to take. CCR represents the establishment GOP and apathy and it would not be easy, but it can be done with grit and determination. Just like when the extremists and progressives have subjugated the Democratic Party over a generation ago. Furthermore, who cares about apathy ?
So, tell us, who is that elusive true conservative would solve
it all ? No one is pure conservative - not Reagan - no one. However, character matters. I know that Chris Christie is not a true conservative, but would vote for him in a heartbeat, because he is principled and leans conservative - good enough for me.
Take a deep breathe, your imagination is running away with you. It will take something similar to what happened in the 2010 midterm elections, to happen several more times as it will to a lesser extent in 2012 and greater extent in 2014.
@66 - Mainstream Republicans are what people have to settle for here, because this is the left coast and they survive with the need to coexist with the liberal progressives who control the institutions. Problem is that the mainstream Republicans are afraid to not get along with the local mainstream media who don't like them to begin with - a silly notion and why I refer to the Republicans as the stupid party. I am well aware of their "secondary" status here, but it doesn't mean it has to stay that way.
However, government run health care, in the words of Mark Steyn will mean the end of Conservative government. You think its bad now ? You ain't seen nothing yet if Obamacare is fully implemented.
Here's the Republican Party Left's Definition of loyalty.
Several Republican women, including staffers in Rep. Sid Morrison's failed bid for governor, have endorsed Mike Lowry, the Democratic candidate for governor.
Those backing Lowry include Kay Trepanier, former King County coordinator for Morrison, and Joyce Nord, former King County volunteer coordinator for Morrison. Former state legislator Delores Teutsch, a Republican, also endorsed Lowry.
GOP MODERATES CROSSING OVER GROUP THAT OPPOSED LOWRY SENATE BID ARE IMPRESSED WITH NEW IMAGE;
Scott Maier, P-I Reporter. Seattle Post - Intelligencer. Seattle, Wash.: Oct 19, 1992. pg. a.4
Such GOP stalwarts as C. Montgomery Johnson, chairman of the state Republican Party from 1965 to 1971; former state Reps. Delores Teutsch and Dick Smythe; and Kay Trepanier, who founded the King County Republican Club, are backing Lowry against Republican Ken Eikenberry.
Over the weekend, Ron Crowe, a Republican and former mayor of Puyallup, added his name to the list of Lowry backers.
You only like Chris Christie because once in a while he takes on the Unions. On most other issues he is a progressive sleezezoid.
Do know know what "being on the plantation" means? It means that the Republican party can basically ignore you, CCR can basically treat you like crap because they all know that regardless you are going to vote for them.
They don't need to earn your vote so they don't even try.
We used to have a name for girls like that in our High School.
71. "However, government run health care, in the words of Mark Steyn will mean the end of Conservative government." Gosh I must have missed the BEGINNING of conservative government.
72. Um, you do know where Obamacare originally came from don't you?
@71 - Very intelligent comment. Conservative government occurred under Reagan and Clinton. Do you like government of the UK, Greece or France ? that's what you'll get like or not.
@72 - Romneycare - so what's your point ? State vs. Federal Government is the difference. One is bad for one state and the other is horrid for the whole country. Yes, I believe that Romney or any other Prez except Obama will repeal and Congress would replace this with a better model and the new Prez would sign it into law. Why bother - right - faux-Conservative Grant ? Get real.
74. Conservative government under Clinton? Gosh I remember the Clinton years and they were NOT conservative times. They were pretty bad times where the word ORAL SEX became everyday language. Also we were constantly trying to figure out what IS was.
75. "I believe that Romney or any other Prez except Obama will repeal and Congress would replace this with a better model..."
A better model of government health care?
No you are being very naive. What you will find is that Romney will only give the issue lip service.
76. Scott Brown was elected because of people's concerns over Obamacare. And the very next day after he got elected he betrayed people on the issue. So, no, the old joke is true. How do you tell if a politician is lying? His lips move.
Romney says: "I hope we're ultimately able to eliminate some of the differences, and repeal the bad and keep the good."
Keep the good? There is nothing good about Obamacare. See Romney is ALREADY shifting to the Left on this issue. Wait until the general.
You are being deceived here KDS!
Here's a Romney adviser saying that Romney WILL NOT repeal Obamacare.
So when he defends Obamacare once elected I guess we can't say Romney lied. But that is how it is with Romney. You can find him on every side of every issue.
You are being played by Romney here. Someone with more experience with politics could see it easily but I guess you are still a rank amateur.
CCR: I don't who Freeman is. Somehow I believe you are full of it. Why don't you try to convince Thomas Sowell the Friedman is a cretin. The Nobel Prize Committee had no problem with Friedman when they awarded him their prize.
BTW if you go to the Standford U website you can find Dr Sowell's email address.
CCR: I don't who Freeman is. Somehow I believe you are full of baloney. Why don't you try to convince Thomas Sowell the Friedman is a cretin. The Nobel Prize Committee had no problem with Friedman when they awarded him their prize.
BTW if you go to the Standford U website you can find Dr Sowell's email address.
CCR: I don't who Freeman is. Somehow I believe you are a malicious troll. Why don't you try to convince Thomas Sowell the Friedman is a cretin. The Nobel Prize Committee had no problem with Friedman when they awarded him their prize.
BTW if you go to the Standford U website you can find Dr Sowell's email address.
You should research Teddy Roosevelt and Fighting Bob LaFallotte to find out what Progressive Republicans stood for and not compare them to Progressive Democrats. There is a difference. It should also be noted that the Republican party roots are in Wisconsin (and Michigan, depends on which event you count as beginning). A major constituent of the party was the Abolitionists, who you could argue were not big state's rights proponents. If fact it is laughable that Newt invokes Andrew Jackson, founder of the Democrat Party, and not an early Republican. The yellow-dog Democrats in the lineage of Jackson have converted to Southern Republicans and hijacked the party from its roots. For me, I would ascribe more to the Modern Whigs than either the Republican or Democratic party. Lincoln was a Whig before running as a Republican.
74. Conservative government under Clinton? Gosh I remember the Clinton years and they were NOT conservative times. They were pretty bad times where the word ORAL SEX became everyday language. Also we were constantly trying to figure out what IS was.
Posted by Steve at January 31, 2012 10:49 PM
Yes, the Republicans in congress balanced the budget - they were fiscally conservative times, but not socially conservative. You have selective amnesia. Clinton was a cad in his personal life, but he was a better conservative president in his 2nd term than were either Bush's, mainly because in the end, he went along with Congress, controlled by Repubs. No need to blather about what happened with Bush-43 a big government Republican.
Steve - Who do you prefer for President ?
CCR - what about you ? Are you afraid to say - Tell us your candidates. We won't criticize or ridicule you dudes too much.
@84 - Progressive R's are less insidious on the surface than progressive D's, but both believe in big government and we cannot afford this any more. Teddy R. and LaFollette may have been less toxic in their time but they revised the constitution to fit their agenda and are power hungry (the main characteristic of progressives), but we did not have as severe fiscal problems as we do now.
Progressive D's like Wilson, FDR and Obama were out to fundamentally change the structure of the government and abort the constitution wherever possible. Progressive R's are progressive Democrats lite. Both progressive D's and R's tried to expand their political party's power base, only to come back and bite them when the opposing party came into power. An unsustainable debt would not give Republicans that luxury any more. By that fact along, progressive republicans either become extinct or the conservative movement as we know it today will die. There will still be conservatives, but they will be unable to be actively fiscally conservative, just socially.
Who I support? I thought I already said. I am all for Romney. I see him as another Roosevelt. I am a little offended that you would ask who I support because it implies there's actually a choice which of course we all know there isn't. Anyone who doesn't support Romney is a kook and probably dangerous to themselves and society in general. They really need to be locked up. And they certainly have no place in the Republican Party!
I know Romney will repeal Obamacare. Then he can do healthcare the correct way by enacting Romneycare on a national level.
For Governor, I support McKenna. It will be Washington's own Camelot. That is I support McKenna unless I can negotiate with my friends in his opponents campaign some type of deal where I can stab McKenna in the back at a critical point in the campaign in return for a place in his opponent's administration. Heck Morrison got Transportation Secretary under Lowry. If a similar opportunity fails into my lap of course I will take it.
Paddy, Thomas Sowell is perceived as racist as well. The Republican party needs to stop referring to all these Fringe figures who no one outside the tea baggers have even heard of. It just makes us look like tinfoil wearing kooks.
Instead we need to start supporting leaders and ideas that will actually work. There's this guy in California, Van Jones, he has some innovative ideas that we need to get behind as a party. I heard about him from the lady who was running for Governor of California on the Republican ticket last time around.
@88 - Kindly stop disparaging the Tea Party !
I am OK with Romney and McKenna, but realize that they have some progressive in them. That's where the Tea Party and a number of the new House Republicans come into play. They are anti-progressive and need to hold whoever's feet to the fire for fiscal responsibility and take steps to stop corruption, if this Republic is to be saved.
Van Jones - WTF ? He is a radical marxist and a 9-11 truther and a supporter of the Occupy movement. He spews a good but insidious line of BS and is nothing more than a henchman for Obama and a propagandist and another willing puppet of George Soros. Meg Whitman was a pathetic candidate for Governor. Politics has become so corrupted there that everyone running regardless of party are likewise corrupted. Did you graduate from college in the last 10 years ?
KDS, it's our party, NOT YOURS. If anyone needs leave it, it would be you tea baggers.
Progressive Republicans have been in the Republican party from the beginning. It's the conservatives who are the interlopers.
Look at our history. Yeah there were some dark days in the 1980s but apart from that we have had a strong history of pushing forward the cause of progressivism in the United States. The 1980s were an aberration. The Republican party hasn't been for most of it's history, isn't supposed to be, and isn't now a Conservative party. We just have tricked you to think otherwise.
Look not at our rhetoric but our actions. I am very proud of the fact that despite having to pretend to be conservatives to get you tea baggers to vote for us, we have been quite consistent in practice to give this nation progressive governance.
We were the ones to enact affirmative action under Nixon. Look it up. We also gave amnesty to illegals, and did so at a time when your tea bagger icon was President (Damn this would have been such a better country had Anderson just won). So, why are you telling us to get out of our party? No, tea bagger, either you stfu and just do the Republican Salute election after election, or you get the hell out of our party. We progressive Republicans, we mainstreamers, aren't going anywhere. We own the Republican party. It's ours and it always has been!
KDS, Meg Whitman met Van Jones on a cruise and she was very impressed with him. All you conspiracy talk just reveals you for the racist, sexist, homophobe that you are.
Really, I am supposed to take your word over a Republican candidate for governor? Meg Whitman is more of a Republican than you ever be!
92. I am glad you support McKenna. I believe he could be our state's most progressive Governor in our history (well perhaps second next to the Great Dan Evans peace be upon him). And the influence that he could hold within the state party itself he would make a powerful ally in our effort to get rid of you tea baggers. That alone makes him worthy of support. As governor he will be powerful weapon whose influence would ensure that no tea bagger could ever win any primary for any seat be it state wide, legislative, or on the local level or even a position in the Republican party structure. He will ensure that this tea bagging influence is irradiated within the Republican party completely and that is why he needs to be elected!
93. Did you graduate from college in the last 10 years ?
Oh, I am a LOT older than that.I've been around the Republican party for a long, long year... Stole many a Republicans soul and faith. Pleased to meet you... hoped you guessed my name. But what's puzzling you is the nature of my game...
I am as old as Dan Evans but at the same time as young as Rodney Tom. I was around the Republican party long before you got here and I will be here long after I drum you out of the Republican party.
94. CCR @87
You state that Romney will repeal Obamacare. What exactly does that mean? This is a red herring as far as I am concerned and is pandering for votes on the right. I won't argue calling the healthcare law Obamacare (which isn't correct), but what I would say is that the healthcare law is basically the same as Romney's version in Massachusetts only at the national level. The controversial part is the mandate part, which will be decided by the Supreme court before next falls election. The rest of the bill deals with mostly things that Republicans were all for, before Obama said they are good ideas. There is no "takeover" of healthcare in the bill. The exchanges portion is not a takeover. It is exchanges of Private insurance companies, just like what Massachusetts has set up. So, for Romney to pander and say that he will "repeal" a law that is 99% like his law in Massachusetts is laughable. Basically, what he is really saying is he is for the Massachusetts model at the national level w/o the mandate. If the Supreme Court backs that the mandate is unconstitutional, then Romney doesn't have to do anything. There is no "repeal." It is pander, pander, pander when it comes to Romney. If you want to see a Republican candidate that has been consistent on this issue, it is Ron Paul. Santorum, has also been fairly consistent. Gingrich is like Romney and pandering on this issue. Gingrich was all for mandates and the other parts of the health care law when he was in congress.
When I say repeal, I mean talk about repealing in some speech, and then maybe even pass something where the language of Obamacare is changed slightly, without really changing the actual effects, you know, change punctuation slightly, correct for spelling errors.
We all know that what is really so wrong with Obamacare is that it was passed under Obama. Had say McCain passed it, the exact same legislation, I would be praising it as a landmark piece of legislation.
Tc what you call "pandering" I prefer to use Scott Brown's term "Campaign Mode". Everyone knows that once elected, you shouldn't be held accountable for anything said in "Campaign Mode". Gosh no, Campaign Mode and Governing are too different things and you should absolutely govern exactly opposite than the way you said you would in "Campaign Mode". Just like Scott Brown does.
No, I am looking forward to Milt Romney being the most progressive Republican ever, even more progressive than "W". But you know if it gets to be like August or September and like Milt is way behind in the polls I will get myself some Obama bumper stickers and put them on my car. Because as much as I love Mitt Romney, I also love the feeling I get when I can prove how non-racist I am by voting for a black President.
Actually what I hope Romney does when he "fixes" Romn.., um I mean Obamacare is not to really change it but to add on to it. Make it even more progressive than when the Democrats originally passed it.
Getting involved in the whole healthcare thing again is a great chance to cater to our lobbyists. The Democrats made out like bandits with the lobbyists when they originally passed Rom...I mean Obamacare. This will be our opportunity to do the same.
KDS@89 You weren't disparaging the Occupy Movement were you?
I am not saying I support the Occupy Movement. I don't, don't understand me.
But one needs to be courteous, even reverential to one's political opponents. One shouldn't be rude and attack them or what they stand for. We must be above all that. It is wrong to insult them or call them names.
But then again, I guess that would be expecting too much from a toothless, barefoot tea bagger like you. You are a real piece of filth.
99. Actually I already have Obama bumper stickers that I put on my window when I park in the more shady areas of Seattle. I believe it protects my car when people in the area see those stickers if you know what I mean.
KDS said Jack Abramoff who bought off about 1/3 of Congress before he went to prison for 3.5 years.
Jack Abramoff was an idiot who must have failed the fractions portion of basic math. 1/3 of Congress is LESS, not MORE than a majority of Congress. DUH!
Had he bought off say 50 percent plus one of Congress he would have never gone to jail. But he only bought off 1/3. People like that really have no right to live, much less walk around in polite society.
Math is an important skill!
CCR: Sowell is perceived as a racist by whom besides Van Jones? Jones and his ilk see racists everywhere except when the look in the mirror. then they see race baiters.
Insofar as I know Thomas Sowell is considered to be both a first rate economist and one of America's leading philosophers. Frankly CCR, I am amazed that you can even spell his name correctly.
Thomas Sowell is considered a OREO, a Uncle Tom, a Race Betrayer.
I know this because my black friend told me so.
Do you have a black friend? I do.
CCR: here is a link to Dr Sowell's syndicated column today.
BTW: how do you suppose that brilliant governor, Jerry Brown, is going to make the state payroll after he runs out of cash next month?
Van Jones is a great guy who we would be lucky to have in the Republican Party. Won't happen because of all the tea baggers in the party but I am just saying if it did we would be honored beyond belief.
I don't like to name drop so I won't. But a friend of mine from California actually personally met Van Jones on a cruise they were both on and she was EXTREMELY IMPRESSED with him.
And no, my friend isn't a Democrat. She is actually a highly respected REPUBLICAN in California who is at the highest levels of the State Republican Party there. But that's all I can really say...
Hey, I donated money to governor moonbeams opponent. Not much. Only a few thousand dollars. But still I probably did more than you did in trying to keep him out of office.
If you want to blame anyone for Jerry Brown - blame the tea baggers
@104 - Andrew Breitbart is the equivalent and then some on the right of Van Jones on the far left. With all due respect, you are asanine and a low information voter to think the R's want a commie, pinko scum on our side. What a maroon !
McCain passing Obamacare - he would not have done it - another asanine bulls**t comment. Don't get me wrong, I don't like McCain.
KDS@89 You weren't disparaging the Occupy Movement were you?
Liar. I said the Tea Party movement. Here's the real quote;
"Kindly stop disparaging the Tea Party !"
We are on opposite sides, CCR - I'll side with the Tea party. You represent the stupid part of the Republican party. As long as fools like you are Republican, I'll call myself an Independent. That is until the Tea Party co-opts it. Ha !
Keep thinking the Tea Party is dead...
Have you ever met Van Jones? My friend has, and she is further up in the Republican party than you will ever be. SO obviously Republicans DO want Van Jones on our side.
And the only reason that will probably never happen is because of racist, sexist homophobes like you.
And, by the way, the Tea Party is all but dead.
Why do you think the Tea Party was so unique anyway? It's not like it never existed before. It existed in the 1990s.
Oh, they didn't call themselves that back then. No, they rallied under the flag UNITED WE STAND. Yeah, they were the Perot nuts. They were so disappointed with Clinton that we were able to co-opt them in 1994 to help us pull off the Republican Revolution.
Oh, they thought they were going to co-opt us. They had their Linda Smith and like nationally they had their Helen P. Chenoweth and such but in the end we were able to marginalize them and then eliminate them. Just like we are now doing with you. Check out what we are doing to your Allen West. We just redistricted him out of his seat!
Yeah, thanks for 2010 but now just get out of the way. When it comes to the actual governing, you, your tea party, the Perot people of the 1990s and even the religious Moral Majority freaks of the 1980s have no real place. So either shut up and get to the back of the bus or get off the bus entirely. You will never co-opt the GOP.
Not while the Mainstream Republicans of the State of Washington exists!
You know you are just making it much harder on yourself when you just don't accept your place. You are supposed to lick stamps, wave signs, and then cast your votes. Leave the public policy stuff to us.
Come on, plug your nose, bend your knees, do the Republican Salute. And remember the GOP Motto "LESSER OF TWO EVILS"
No, McCain would never pass something as terrible as Obamacare.
He would pass McCaincare which would be just like Obamacare but with the very, very key difference that it would be a Republican President passing it which of course makes it good.
Obamacare - bad, bad, bad...
Romneycare - good, good, good...
See what is important is whether a Republican or a Democrat is passing it. That is what determines whether it is good or bad, not what is actually in the legislation.
109. I am going to close this post, for obvious reasons.