Comment on Entry: Wonder Why Obama Won? Do the Math., authored by warrenpeterson
1. Romney's problems go deeper than misreading (or ignoring) the polls, although that's symptomatic of a larger detachment from reality permeating the GOP's ranks from top professionals down to rank-and-file activists. Romney and the GOP has a demographic problem, one that probably could not have been overcome in this election cycle, even had they been willing to face it. As Business Week explains,

"Obama could see coming, as any poll-watcher could, the demographic tidal wave that swamped Republicans on Nov. 6. ... Latinos went to Obama in record numbers, 71 percent to Romney's 29 percent, down sharply from the 44 percent George W. Bush won in 2000. Obama also carried 93 percent of blacks and 73 percent ofAsians. In 1980 whites cast about 90 percent of all votes; this year they cast 72 percent, and that number falls an average of 2 percentage points every four years.

"Republicans have become prisoners of demography, helpless to break free from the nativism of their activist base. Bush failed to persuade a much more moderate Congress to pass immigration reform in 2007. Obama will soon try again. In the process he will expose the deep fissure among Republicans that, if not bridged, will consign the party to minority status ...."

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-11-07/obamas-holding-the-cards

Republicans face a stark choice: They must either become a more inclusive party, or continue to lose elections.

Posted by Roger Rabbit at November 9, 2012 06:59 PM
2. Mittenfreude Friday!

The math?

Warren, you know who did the math?
Mitt Rmoney & company did the math!

Mitt Romney's campaign has paid $134.2 million to political firms with ties to his senior staff, for consulting and other services.

Cha Ching!

How's it feel to be grifted Warren?

Mittenfreude Friday!

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 9, 2012 07:03 PM
3. Mittenfreude Friday!

The math?

You know who didn't do the math?
Those job creating genius businessmen y'all worship.

For U.S. Chamber of Commerce, election was a money-loser

The day after an election in which the U.S. Chamber of Commerce spent millions of dollarsbacking losing Republican candidates, executives began the brutal process of assessing what went wrong at the nation's leading business organization.

The Chamber spent nearly $24 million to defeat several high-profile Democratic Senate candidates, including Sen. Sherrod Brown in Ohio, former governor Timothy M. Kaine in Virginia and Elizabeth Warren in Massachusetts, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. But out of 15 Senate races where the business organization put down money, only two went the Chamber's way.

The results were not much better in the House, where the Chamber poured more than $7 million into 22 races, according to the CRP. The Chamber's candidates picked up only four wins.

Mittenfreude Friday!

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 9, 2012 07:07 PM
4. Mittenfreude Friday!

Warren,
What kind of head up his ass moron gives Rush Limbaugh any credence about anything other than scoring illegal oxycontin and and Viagra popping whoring in the Dominican Republic?


Yeah, you Warren. You and the (un)Sound Peanut Gallery and the Republican Party pay attention to and think what Limpdick has to say is important or relevant.

How's it feel to be grifted Warren?

Mittenfreude Friday!

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 9, 2012 07:15 PM
5. MikeBoyScout-

Can you be a little more civil and respectful? You won... act like it.

Posted by Mike at November 9, 2012 07:48 PM
6. Mittenfreude Friday!

Warren,
It is not only prominent prognosticators on the right who were spectacularly wrong. It is the whole lot of you who were or are routinely spectacularly wrong. And y'all aren't just wrong about the polls.

Republicans are or have been spectacularly wrong about a long list of easily observable facts.

Here's a short list for you as you just now seem to be catching on:

Ohio really did go to President Obama.

And he really did win.

And he really was born in Hawaii.

And he really is legitimately President of the United States, again.

And the Bureau of Labor Statistics did not make up a fake unemployment rate last month.

And the Congressional Research Service really can find no evidence that cutting taxes on rich people grows the economy.

And the polls were not screwed to oversample Democrats.

And Nate Silver was not making up fake projections about the election to make conservatives feel bad. Nate Silver was doing math.

And climate change is real.

And rape really does cause pregnancy sometimes.

And evolution is a thing.

And Benghazi was an attack on us, it was not a scandal by us.

And nobody is taking away anyone's guns.

And taxes have not gone up.

And the deficit is dropping, actually.

And Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction.

And the moon landing was real.

And FEMA is not building concentration camps.

And U.N. election observers are not taking over Texas.

And moderate reforms of the regulations on the insurance industry and the financial services industry in this country are not the same thing as communism.

There's a whole lot more bullshit you've been fed and accepted, but let's start with a short list.

Mittenfreude Friday!

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 9, 2012 07:50 PM
7. Speaking of math... and just in time for our loud lefties:
How to Explain to a Child Why Entitlements are Corrupting America...
How to explain Uncle Sam's entitlement crisis to an 8yr old

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 9, 2012 08:38 PM
8. re 6: ... and Obama did not have a gay liason with Bill Frist.

...and Hillary Clinton did not murder Vince Foster.

The list is endless.

And these Klowns are asking for civility?

Posted by red hiney monkey at November 9, 2012 08:49 PM
9. re 7: There is no entitlement crisis. What if insurance companies started defining the cashing in of a whole life insurance policy an 'entitlement'? You would be against whole life insurance -- because it's an 'entitlement'.

What if you pay off the loan on your car and the banks confiscates the car because you have the nerve to think you're 'entitled' to it.

That question, Rags, is how do you explain to an idiot like you that you are an idiot?

Posted by red hiney monkey at November 9, 2012 08:59 PM
10. @7
And Ragnarwhatshisname goes back to the well, the KoolAid well of the AEI, for a pithy retort.

Rather pathetic.

Note the post @6. You may not like it, but that's a list of FACTS.

You come to the table, in contrast, with cutsie cartoons (did they pay the Seuss estate for the rights to use those images - likely not, if the habit of Republican campaigns to pirate pop songs against their owners' wishes is any indication) - cartoons meant to appeal to the true believers, your fellow knuckledraggers and Bibul-thumpers, and you think that that is somehow a cogent argument that can stand up to an actual opponent.

That's really not a very effective way to engage in adult conversation.

Posted by Dr. Liberal at November 9, 2012 09:16 PM
11. I keep hearing a similar refrain from right wingers the past few days - stupid, lazy people voted for Obama because they were promised, and expect, 'free stuff'.

I'm curious...could any of you righties explain to me precisely what this fabled 'free stuff' is?

It seems y'all are really hot and bothered that all this 'free stuff' is going to be taken away from you and given to 'them', and further, that this alleged transfer of 'stuff' is going to turn the USA into Greece.

So, what is this 'stuff' and how is it's movement going to doom the Republic?

Posted by Dr. Liberal at November 9, 2012 09:21 PM
12. Mittenfreude Friday!

next time, do the math.

If only there were some inexpensive tool to help Romney & Co do the math.
You'd think the man who successfully researched and provided the venture capital for a highly successful company like Staples would be able to, if not buy this 'math doing tool' they could create one, by outsourcing its development out of the 'Union Thug' corrupted USofA to China , wait.
What's that?

http://www.staples.com/Staples-SPL-150-10-Digit-Display-Calculator/product_466463

There's an $8.99 'math doing thing' available at Staples?


Mittenfreude Friday!

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 9, 2012 10:01 PM
13. Mittenfreude Friday!

Mittenfreude- the pleasure derived from the misfortunes of Mitt Romney and those who believe(d) and/or support(ed) him

You're soaking in it.


Mittenfreude Friday!

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 9, 2012 10:03 PM
14. I think you need to do the math all over again. Romney/Ryan underperformed in rural areas by a large margin compared to McCain/Palin. The bloggers together with the GOP establishment hand picked their suburban metrosexual nominee who was of course a hit with the party elite and their blogger backers.

Like the liberal media, they didn't realize that a Massachusetts liberal in sheep's clothing wasn't going to appeal to a large swath of the GOP base.

That large swath stayed home. It was the same argument we had in the primaries and the blogger elites thought Romney would pick off more independents than they would lose in conservatives staying home.

Give us Dole, McCain, and Romney and you give us a contrast with the Dem candidate that only a suburbanite could appreciate. Next up it will be a Rubio or a Christie and we'll stay home again.

Posted by doug at November 9, 2012 10:08 PM
15. Dr Liberal.

I commute 4-6 hrs to work.

More of my paycheck goes to feed the government than goes to feed my family.

The free stuff is 47% who pay NOTHING in income tax or get net money out of file taxes.

What the hell is that about--- file a 1040 and get more money back than you paid in??????

This doesn't end well for America.

Posted by Andy at November 9, 2012 10:12 PM
16. @14
doug,
One of the more successful digs that the Democrats hit Romney with was that he 'was the guy that fired you' or something to that effect - encapsulating his wealth, his out-of-touchness, his trouble with his human emotion chip, his inescapable condescension.

I think that worked well with urban working people, blue-collar types and such - but folks with a significant tendency to be Democrats in the first place, at least traditionally.

Do you think that that worked with rural folk as well - part of what you're describing?

Posted by Dr. Liberal at November 9, 2012 10:14 PM
17. Mittenfreude Friday!

@14 doug on November 9, 2012 10:08 PM,

Why does someone always have to give you moochers free stuff?

You, doug, are what's WRONG with the Republican party!
You, doug, are part of the notorious 47% who want free stuff!

ooooh, "Give us a Rubio or a Christie and we'll stay home again."
Sure, and while you and your ilk are waiting to be given candidates, those brave Democrats are out making them. The Democrats, doug, are Candidate Creators!

Why do you think it is, doug, that Democrats have obtained pluralities in 5 of the last 6 presidential elections?

It is because of lazy teat suckers like YOU, doug, never able to go out and make good Republican candidates!

Bastards takers like YOU, doug, are ruining our Republican party!


Mittenfreude Friday!

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 9, 2012 10:16 PM
18. Mittenfreude Friday!

@15 Andy on November 9, 2012 10:12 PM,

"What the hell is that about--- file a 1040 and get more money back than you paid in??????"

Right on brother!
What the Fandango was Ronald R. Reagan thinking when he got that Earned Income Tax Credit passed?

Good thing Ronald Reagan's administration also had the good sense to try and classify ketchup as a vegetable, otherwise just think what you'd need to pay to feed your family!

These are the good times, Time for dialogues. So let us all be civil And not write angry blogs. Life is flowing Like ketchup on Romney/Ryan dogs. Ketchup, ketchup, ketchup...


Mittenfreude Friday!

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 9, 2012 10:26 PM
19. @15
Andy...

More of my paycheck goes to feed the government than goes to feed my family.

Do explain. Are you claiming that you pay more than 50% in taxes? Just asking.

The free stuff is 47% who pay NOTHING in income tax or get net money out of file taxes.

Do you understand what you're saying, or are you venting your frustration with your situation by parroting, and identifying with, dishonest FoxNews/RushLimbaugh/Republican talking points?

The reason I ask, did you know that of that 47%, nearly 60% pay payroll taxes, but don't earn enough to pay federal income tax. Another 25% of the 47% are elderly people on limited fixed incomes? Nearly 15% of the 47% are nonelderly people who earn less than $20000. That's just about all of them.

Moreover, most everyone pays state and local taxes of some sort, nearly everyone sales taxes - these tend to be more regressive and his poorer people harder.

When you say "get net money out of file taxes" I assume you mean the Earned Income Tax Credit, EITC, yes?

That's a successful antipoverty program, long supported by Republicans and Democrats, and most recipients (>60%) benefit from it for 2 years or less. Is that the 'free stuff' you're talking about?

You don't sound very happy, and your desire to squeeze more money out of poor and elderly people already on the edge doesn't speak well of your commitment to your community.

Posted by Dr. Liberal at November 9, 2012 10:38 PM
20. @15
I worry Andy that your frustration with your life has been hijacked by a cynical and slick Republican noise machine that is telling you who to resent, to hate.

Those 47% aren't your enemy, they're your neighbors...The little old lady across the street, the very young couple just starting out a little too soon, the disabled vet, the single mom whose husband walked out, leaving her with the three kids.

It could be you someday, or me.

The measure of a society is shown by the way it treats the most vulnerable of its members.

Can you tell me how "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need" conflicts with the teachings of Jesus?

Posted by Dr. Liberal at November 9, 2012 10:46 PM
21. http://xkcd.org/1131/

(Be sure to mouse over the graphic for a delicious comment.)

Romney never led the polls, not even once, not for even one day. That alone, in a down economy, should have been all of the 'math' required. But Nate Silver did it all anyway, you all abused him for it, and now he's enjoying himself immensely.

Meanwhile, I really think you guys ought to explore, seriously, the idea that Mitt and Karl Rove were just grifting you. Why on earth would a rich autocrat want to take a job with so many strings attached? It would have been a step down for a guy like him. Both guys have made careers of soullessly jacking their fellow Americans, and laughing about it afterwards. Maybe this time, their target was you?

Posted by tensor at November 9, 2012 11:39 PM
22. I don't wonder why Obama won. I wonder where Pudge is, and how he is going to explain how his BFF Koster, who was well known and elected several times in his county, lost to a candidate who has never held elective office, never won an election, and had hardly even voted in the past 10 years?

How do you fell, Pudge, about supporting a candidate who thinks women should be forced to bear their rapists' children? You didn't think that mattered. The election results tell me that yes, it did matter. It mattered a lot.

So not only does that tell us that Koster is dumb, and that Larry Stickney is dumb, but that you're dumb, too. Now get on here and call me a liar. We know that's one thing, probably the only thing, that you're good at. Loser.

Posted by ivan at November 10, 2012 08:28 AM
23. Dr.Liberal and MBS,

The Obama attacks on Romney had no effect on people like me. People like me remember Romney from his previous run, we know the flip-flopper that he was and we know him to have championed liberal policies. And yes, we realize he "had to" because it was a liberal state.

It is my belief from looking at the early numbers, that Romney lost a huge number of traditional Republican voters - he lost them in the sense they didn't vote. There is no evidence to suggest he lost them because they were evangelicals or for religious reasons.

It appears that he actually did a pretty good job compared to previous 'R' nominees in attracting new voters. That leads me to believe that Obama's negative attack approach wasn't the factor.

As such this was likely the one election in our lifetime that was most like an election without contrasts in the eyes of a large part of what would have been the traditional republican vote. It looks to me like that part was not the suburban GOP voters but the rural ones, (based on rural turnout comparisons).

It is clear that Obama 'lost' his re-election bid - not in the sense that he actually lost, but that he only won because many traditional voters just didn't want to go vote for the other option whose governance experience wasn't disimilar to Obama's.

As for the comment about paying 50% in taxes that someone made, that very well could be true.

I have to pay over 35% in income and social security taxes for myself, along with about 7% more in property taxes and the portion of my income spent on gas and sales taxes. Additionally, if you actually backed out the employment taxes I am required to pay for my employees and consider them as otherwise being my income, then I would end up much, much higher than 50% of my available income going into taxes.

If you want to add government regulations that were added since the purchase of my business and the expenses of meeting those and take those dollars out of my business expenses and consider that amount as what would have been income, then use that amount as 'taxes', that number would be about 80%......yes, 80% of what would have been my income from my business would be paid to the government in the form of taxes and regulations that weren't in existence prior to the decision to engage in the business.

Posted by doug at November 10, 2012 08:38 AM
24. Trying to have a conversation with our loud liberals is like trying to discuss anything with our lab: she sticks her a$$ up in the air and wags her tail in pure dumb joy.

She at least fetches, eats, poops, and goes to her bed on command ..... can't say the same for your loud lefty's

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 10, 2012 08:57 AM
25. .
@23 doug on November 10, 2012 08:38 AM,

After reading your comment it is clear to me that you are exactly the type of voter the Gekko/Galt campaign thought would make up the majority on election day. No, I'm not talking old & white (although there is that). I talking stupid.

Sorry, dude. As Gov Ruth's Chris Christie said at the Republican Rmoney Coronation "tell us the truth and ... lead with conviction."

Why on Friday would you refer to "early numbers"? Is your internet broken?

Regarding regulations, well, what I see in your comment is not any specifics about "new regulations", you know, stuff we could discuss so that any bad situation could be improved. No, what I see is just the same old BS about regulation in general with the unsubstantiated premise that there are new regs that impact you.

doug, Americans like government regulation. I bet you do too.

For example, would it be ok with you if I bought the property next to your house and put in a pig farm and drained the pig shit into your yard?
doug, the restriction upon the use of property for the benefit of society is older than our nation. And in our nation we've regulated to great effect.

The election is over doug. We beat the side of regress. We are moving FORWARD.

Turn off the Fox News propaganda and tune in to the will of the people doug, and you'll live better and profit more. YES YOU CAN, doug.

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 10, 2012 09:15 AM
26. MBS,

"For example, would it be ok with you if I bought the property next to your house and put in a pig farm and drained the pig shit into your yard?
doug, the restriction upon the use of property for the benefit of society is older than our nation. And in our nation we've regulated to great effect."

Truth be told, currently that would be against the law. However, if you then had the law changed so that you could, then I would be pissed and would expect that the government compensate for their confiscation of the value of my property.

Now do you f'ing understand?

When the government, through it's citizens, creates a regulation that seizes the value of my property through INDIRECT means, it should good and well f'ing compensate me, but it doesn't. It only wants to when they seize the value of my property through direct means.

If a regulation is in place that affects that property prior to my purchase or use of it, then I have absolutely no problems with that regulation.

However, if the government decides to use it's power to seize the value of my property through indirect regulation, because they don't have the balls to just confiscate it through eminent domain, then they should compensate me for the loss of value.

And that is a call to conservatives in this state, are you listening Eyman? An initiative that requires the state to compensate it's citizens when it seizes the value of a property through a new regulation or law. That would at least make them think before making an assine requirement.

Posted by doug at November 10, 2012 09:32 AM
27. Oh and yes, it is early numbers. When all the votes are tabulated and the elections in each county and state in this country are certified then we can get the full and accurate counts to do a more comprehensive study. Heck, there probably are still a couple hundred thousand votes to count in our state alone.

Posted by doug at November 10, 2012 09:35 AM
28.
Doing the Math
Wake Up & Smell the Coffee!

As of Saturday, November 10th what do we know about who and what Washingtonians chose?

POTUS: DEMOCRAT
Us Senator: DEMOCRAT
WA Governor: DEMOCRAT
Lt. Governor: DEMOCRAT
Secretary of State: TBD
State Treasurer: DEMOCRAT
State Auditor: DEMOCRAT
Attorney General: DEMOCRAT
Commissioner of Public Lands: DEMOCRAT
Insurance Commissioner: DEMOCRAT

Open CD 1: DEMOCRAT
Open CD 10: DEMOCRAT


One could argue that the 2012 election shows the will of the people of Washington is for the policies and people of the Democratic party.

But as the math shows the will of the people of Washington as expressed in a free and fair election, is that we don't want WA Republican polices and people. There is no argument, none whatsoever, that the 2012 election represents the absolute REJECTION of the WA Republicans.

WA Republicans = LOSERS.

Change, or become irrelevant.


Wake Up & Smell the Coffee!

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 10, 2012 09:44 AM
29. @26 doug on November 10, 2012 09:32 AM,

Can you name a single "new" government regulation that is impeding your business doug?

Can you identify the financial impact of it?

Because what I hear from you is nothing but wingnut talking points pablum.

Please, name ONE, and we'll have a reasoned discussion. Who knows, you may even have a valid point that I'd be willing to address here, and more importantly with the people who won this election.

Name ONE, and tell me its financial impact.

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 10, 2012 09:52 AM
30. Doing the Mittenfreude Math

"there are 47 percent of the people... that believe they are victims"

and they are Gekko/Galt Republicans

http://www.google.com/elections/ed/us/results

oh, the irony!

Doing the Mittenfreude Math

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 10, 2012 10:08 AM
31. Wow, we ought to re-name this blog: MtheBS's Sound Politics. As I've said you make a certain amount of sense to be sure but I'm sure my man 'Pudge' will be around posthaste to refute and correct you in matters of fact. :)

Posted by Duffman at November 10, 2012 11:49 AM
32. Math
Hard numbers
facts
Evolution
Global warming
Science
All things absent in Republican reality bubble(tm). How's it feel to get that bubble popped kiddies?

Posted by Proteus at November 10, 2012 11:59 AM
33. re 31: Pudge will erase your comment if you refute his position.

He's the Comment Nazi.

Why doesn't he do some 'refuting' on someone else's thread -- where hr can't erase the comments?

He's a wuss who's none to sure of himself when it comes down to it.

Posted by red hiney monkey at November 10, 2012 12:21 PM
34. Doing the math and schadenfreude cheering:

But all the dependency champions who celebrated on Tuesday night cannot stop the coming storm. The greatest advantage Obama had going into the election was not demography but the fact that the full consequences of his statist economic policies and his pro-jihadist foreign policy have not yet been felt.


Obama To Voters: You Elected Me To Raise Your Taxes...


Mandate? NOPE!


Obama's Lies: Exit Polls Show 63% Think Taxes Shouldn't Be Raised To Fix Deficit

It's Your Move, Mr. President

The American people voted to retain Barack Obama. Fine. It has been settled -- time to move on. Let's consider this fun fact first, from CNN:

Barring serious efforts to curb the growth in the country's debt, by 2020 Washington could be spending 92 cents of every tax dollar on Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and interest alone. That would leave just 8 cents to pay for everything else.


CNBC: We're Probably Headed to Another Recession... NOW They Tell Us?

Two days after the election, CNBC published a dour report on the economy. Shockingly, CNBC is predicting that the U.S. economy is likely headed for another recession.

CNBC so helpfully tells us that, now that the election is behind us, the light in our economic tunnel could be a "freight train." Gee, it sure would have been nice to know that before the election, wouldn't it?

Slowing corporate profits, the remnants of Superstorm Sandy and the ramifications of the "fiscal cliff" in Washington are expected to result in at least two quarters of slow or no growth that could make investing even trickier than it was during the ups and downs of 2012.

But that isn't all. The bigger problem we are now told, is that the economy never achieved "escape velocity" in order to get past the low growth rate we have been experiencing.

The economy, CNBC says, never got to the point where we've had enough growth to withstand the sort of shocks that a Hurricane Sandy or a continued or renewed bad business climate would wreck upon it.

Obama didn't fix a thing, it turns out.


Layoff Mania Continues As Thousands More Lose Their Job

Business Closures Added To Layoff Mania Cost Thousands Upon Thousands of Jobs

Layoff's, Business Closings and Bankruptcy: November 10, 2012


Papa John's Joins Growing List Of Businesses To Reduce Worker's Hours, Fire Employees Or Won't Hire More

Forward! ... NOPE!

Release Delayed Until After Election: Foodstamp Usage Hits All Time Record High


Yes, Obama and the Liberals won. You now OWN IT ALL. You can take the country down the road to Greece, Italy, France, etc. We will let you. We will not stand in your way. You can live and die on your Keynesian economics while ambassadors and border agents are murdered, citizens in the northeast are still without power from Katrina -- I mean Sandy -- and with another Noreaster having barreled through the region again and violent crime continues to increase - particularly in Chicago. Yes, let's see what you and big government can do to help all the victims left in the wake of the policies and calamities of the last 4 years.. maybe if we're lucky, you'll make a movie about it.

Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow you shall die... er, CHEER AMONGST YOURSELVES.

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 10, 2012 12:36 PM
35. doug @23:
It is clear that Obama 'lost' his re-election bid...

Oh, really?

...not in the sense that he actually lost,

Go on...

but that he only won because many traditional voters just didn't want to go vote for the other option whose governance experience wasn't disimilar to Obama's.

Right.

Excuse me, but that's just dumb.

Your point is that Obama didn't really win, it's just that Romney failed to get more voters to vote
for him. Listen, when you get more votes than the other guy, that's called winning! Or, in your case, "winning".

This is a great example of the willful denial of reality that is the subject of Warren's post. I understand that you may still be in shock. My advice: Rest for a few days and don't post any more until you regain your wits.

Posted by scottd at November 10, 2012 12:40 PM
36. scottd,

I'm not in shock over the Romney loss (though I am that McKenna lost). However, if it happened to be the case that only three people in the whole country wanted to vote for one of those candidates and Obama got two of the votes - yes, technically, he would be the winner. In essence, though, it would be a disasterous defeat of what he stands for.

In this election you have to believe that the outcome wasn't so much a victory for what Obama stands for, but a loss for Romney. Obviously not in the same proportion as the 3 people voting situation, but still, it is dismal that so many people chose not to vote for the incumbent, that is truly a loss.

Posted by doug at November 10, 2012 01:12 PM
37. mikebs,

I could name hundreds, but for arguments sake I will name just one that will be a regulation next year and will cost me $15,000 to implement next year:

WAC 16-232 sections 400, 410, 420, 430, 440, 450 will be implemented over my objections. The economic impact statement that DOE is presenting with it is false on so many levels that it is disgusting. The purpose for implementing it is short-sided as well and will cause far more harm (environmentally) than not doing it.

Anyhow, this sort of thing happens all the time, and in Oregon they have a mechanism to reduce the costs associated with the actions. Here, they don't and in the next six months I will be about $15,000 lighter for it.

Posted by doug at November 10, 2012 01:20 PM
38. WAC 16-232 sections 400, 410, 420, 430, 440, 450 will be implemented over my objections.

These regulations seem to restrict the use of poisons in Grays Harbor and Pacific counties. Would you prefer unregulated use of environment-destroying poisons?

...in Oregon they have a mechanism to reduce the costs associated with the actions...

How does that work? Are poison users reimbursed? Whose pocket does that come out of? Wouldn't that be socialism? Or 'statism'?

Do explain.

Posted by Dr. Liberal at November 10, 2012 02:00 PM
39. @37 doug on November 10, 2012 01:20 PM,

Okay, I thought you were going to identify a federal regulation, since we were talking about Obama, but I guess you can't name any.

Next, the Washington Agricultural Code you cited is to restrict the use of pesticides. I buy organic. I go out of my way to buy organic.
I have no sympathy nor tolerance any longer for operations which put the cost of their operation (chemical disposal) on me.
Humorously, you fail to see that this is a real conservative argument on my part, and usually on the part of environmentalists.

You contend that the regulation is bad and will do damage. You don't offer any facts in support of this argument, and I'm not interested in hearing them to debate them.

Bottom line, in economics the cost of managing and disposing of chemicals you use on your land is all yours. If you can't afford to do your business with impacting me (via the surrounding environment), then you don't need to stay in business. From your sides point of view, you are looking for a hand-out from me. No!

And, as scottd pointed out you are the prime example of those who supported Gekko/Galt incapable or unwilling to face, understand and accept facts.
Obama/Biden (and a long list of Democrats in this state, see @28 above) WON.

The American people and the people of WA state have rejected the Republican policies and candidates overwhelmingly.

The American people and the people of WA state have chosen the Democratic policies and candidates overwhelmingly.

Good luck doug.
But remember, come to face the facts and CHANGE, or become politically irrelevant.

That is the Hope & Change we voted for in 2008, and it is the Hope & Change we delivered in 2012.


Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 10, 2012 02:05 PM
40. Dr. Liberal,

I would prefer common sense regulation and if the regulation causes economic damage, then mitigation is paid. As for the use of 'environment-destroying poisons', the actual requirement that is being regulated, once implemented, takes a thriving ecosystem filled with plant and animal life and makes it completely devoid of that life.... can't think of anything more environmentally destroying than that, but then again, that's how the government works.

Posted by doug at November 10, 2012 02:15 PM
41. mbs,

To point out a few of your fallacies,

1) Your assumption that my business is causing the need for the law is completely wrong. However, I will be affected by the regulation and will have to bear it's cost, though they will not get any benefit from my actions as a result.

2) I go out of my way to buy non-organic - because I personally am aware of how much more potential danger comes from eating organic vs. non-organic.

3) I don't understand how your thought process in purchasing organic is a 'conservative' decision. It is a decision, rational or irrational, that I respect, but I'm not sure how it has anything to do with being conservative or liberal. I would guess that that since you aren't supporting laws that would cause me to use less chemicals then it wouldn't be liberal - oh, wait, you may support this one.

4) I can maintain the costs associated with what you describe, and currently do. However, now I must do additional costs beyond what I already do, thanks to government regulation. That cost is absolutely unneccessary for me personally to meet the requirements, yet it's a one size fits all approach. This govt. regulation creates a cost for me and there is no benefit as a result. And in my opinion it hurts the environment and being a farmer there is nothing more important to me than the health of the land.

Posted by doug at November 10, 2012 02:28 PM
42. MikeBS,

I have met your requirement, I have named 1 of the many new government regulations that cause economic damage to myself and have stated it's cost.

That regulation also is unnecessary in my case, however, I must abide by it. When abiding by it, I will necessarily cause more environmental harm than the zero benefit that will be had from it.

As per our initial discussion, the economic outlay will increase the amount of taxes and regulation costs I pay as a percentage of my available income.

You may respect this, or you may just rationalize it away like you have done, that is your choice. However, it is my opinion that the government will be seizing $15,000 of my property for a purpose that they deem necessary (I don't) for the public good and they will not properly compensate me for their seizing of that property.

Posted by doug at November 10, 2012 02:34 PM
43. Romney lost because the Democrats had an advantage from the start: 47% of the people were going to vote for the Democrat Obama no matter what. Even Romney said that when he thought nobody outside the room was listening. 47% will vote for the Democrat because they want the free stuff the Democrats provide to the 47% (which is paid for by the other 53%).

All Obama had to do was convince another 3 or 4 percent of the folks to vote for him in the appropriate states and he had the election in the bag.

It's that simple. We have passed the point where the the socialist trend cannot be broken. Bend over, here it comes!

Posted by Libertarian at November 10, 2012 03:13 PM
44. @43 Libertarian on November 10, 2012 03:13 PM

Doing the Mittenfreude Math

"there are 47 percent of the people... that believe they are victims"

and they are Gekko/Galt Republicans

Obama/Biden: 50%
Gekko/Galt: 47%

Google Election Results

oh, the irony!


Doing the Mittenfreude Math

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 10, 2012 03:26 PM
45. @31 Duffman on November 10, 2012 11:49 AM,

pudge has banned me from commenting on his posts, like so many others. I do look forward to a post from pudge about the Koster race and specifically the WA State Republican party's assertion that he and John the rape thing Koster ran a lousy loser campaign. Koster blames the Republican party for his loss. Because no Republican is ever to blame for his own demise.

A post from pudge on this should be hilarious!

GOP Koster blames party for congressional loss

State GOP Chairman Kirby Wilbur contested Koster's assessment, saying they ran a horrible campaign that did not meet fundraising targets set by the National Republican Congressional Committee.

Ouch!

Well, there's one thing that Kirby and I agree upon ... pudge picks horrible politicians and supports lazy candidates.

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 10, 2012 03:47 PM
46. .
Hey (un)SP wingnuts!

Romney the Great Manager? Not Nearly as Good as Obama, the Election Proved

In the days since the election we have learned that President Barack Obama's campaign had an amazingly advanced and disciplined ground game that knew just what precincts and even voters to target and how to target them, based on polling information that predicted how the vote was going with uncanny precision. Yet Mitt Romney was the man running as the experienced manager, the man whose years running a business uniquely qualified him to run the biggest, most complex organization on earth, the federal government. That was his main, most consistent claim to the office. Now it looks more as if, though he may have been very good at buying and selling companies and extracting profit from them, he wasn't nearly as good at heading an effective complex organization as President Obama.

And somehow all of you were/are surprised by this.

Mitt Romney, not qualified, loser.

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 10, 2012 04:05 PM
47. Doug @42 says:

"However, it is my opinion that the government will be seizing $15,000 of my property for a purpose that they deem necessary (I don't) for the public good and they will not properly compensate me for their seizing of that property."
--
1. The operative phrase here is "in my opinion." Certainly you are entitled to your opinion, and certainly I will defend your right to express your opinion, but no private citizen's opinion has the force of law in this republic until that opinion has been tested in a court of law. Surely you understand that.

2. The burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that the government has "seized" property from you without giving you due process of law. If you can't meet the due process test, it's not a "seizure," period. It's a legitimate function of government.

3. The same redress is available to you that is available to anyone else. a. Work to elect legislators who will pass laws that will satisfy you. b. Lobby the Legislature for changes in the laws that affect your business. c. Sue for damages if you think you have them coming.

I hope this is helpful.

Posted by ivan at November 10, 2012 05:04 PM
48. Thanks for revealing your ideas on this blog. Additionally, a fairy tale regarding the finance institutions intentions any time talking about property foreclosures is that the bank will not have my installments. There is a fair bit of time which the bank can take payments from time to time. If you are as well deep within the hole, they are going to commonly demand that you pay the particular payment 100 %. However, that doesn't mean that they will not take any sort of installments at all. If you and the bank can be capable to work something out, your foreclosure course of action may halt. However, should you continue to skip payments in the new plan, the property foreclosures process can pick up where it left off.

Posted by Battlestar Galactica Seasons 1-2 DVD Boxset at November 10, 2012 06:18 PM
49. Libertarian@43 writes, "47% will vote for the Democrat because they want the free stuff the Democrats provide to the 47% (which is paid for by the other 53%)."

So you think the lower income 47% all voted for Obama while the upper income 53% voted virtually all for Romney?

Sorry, this is yet another one of those concoctions that doesn't stand up to second-grade arithmetic.

The exit polls show that, while lower income voters were more likely to vote for Obama and higher income voters for Romney, the correlation wasn't that strong. Plenty of people who pay far more in taxes than they receive in government "stuff" voted for Obama.

Posted by Bruce at November 11, 2012 01:37 AM
50. .
THE MATH

Appearing Sunday on ABC's "This Week" Sen. Patty Murray (D-WA) a member of the Democratic leadership, telegraphed her party's intentions if Republicans refuse to accept a tax increase on the wealthy.

"[T]o solve this problem, the wealthiest Americans have to pay their fair share too," she said. "If the Republicans will not agree with that, we will reach a point at the end of this year where all the tax cuts expire and we'll start over next year, and whatever we do will be a tax cut for whatever package we put together. That may be the way to get past this."

What do you think "conservatives"?
Should Boehner and the House Republicans vote for a tax increase for those making over $250k/year and extend the middle class tax cuts now?

[ Family Business and Tax Cut Certainty Act of 2012 (pdf)]

Or should they stick to their guns and let your taxes go up and try and do better in the next Congress where they have fewer supporters of the approach in the House and the Senate?

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 11, 2012 07:32 AM
51. Dear Republican Congress, Give Obama and His Boys Everything They Want

I agree. Hasten the demise. Let them see life without a cautionary safety net. California is on the road with the government they just elected for themselves.

People vote for the government they want. LET THEM HAVE IT.

Jobs
Debt
Freedom

It's on you lefty's.

Grow some balls and accept responsibility with no whining.

[/snicker] Yeah, right.

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 11, 2012 11:00 AM
52. Oh, dear, you don't say #3: Left Illiberals feel boycotting businesses will create more jobs

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 11, 2012 11:01 AM
53. @52 RagnarDanneskold on November 11, 2012 11:01 AM,

So, you recommend Speaker Boehner and the House Republicans support the Family Business and Tax Cut Certainty Act of 2012?

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 11, 2012 11:58 AM
54. @51 Ms. Rags sez, "no whining"

My goodness, Ms. Rags, your every comment since you lost has been a whine.

You people and projection. It just never ends, does it? Did you know that Doctor Steve can help you with that? Just ask Wingnut Bob who used to hang out at HA spewing projection up until just this last Tuesday. He's evidently cured and gone now, likely having returned to his worthless existence of worshipping Galtian Overloards, hopelessly wishing that he was one of them, and babbling on and on about "The Pain". Heck, I didn't even charge him anything. That one was gratis.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 11, 2012 12:22 PM
55. Doc: Good luck to you, but I think Rags is a hopeless case. She has an infinite supply of wingnut blogs to cut and paste from and it seems to comfort her. Palliative treatment is the best you can hope for; I don't think she can be cured.

Posted by scottd at November 11, 2012 12:31 PM
56. Ragnar...

1. On another thread you lamented that the/your Catholic Church did not do enough in this past election, in terms of helping Romney. What more would you have had them do? If they were to overtly involve themselves in politics, should they lose their tax-exempt status?

2. You've complained about us liberals being 'ungracious winners'. Your posts this week have all been spiteful and nasty. As an Ayn Rand acolyte, how does a winner go about being gracious - wouldn't that just be coddling losers? Also, do you think your Jesus would approve of the tone of your posts?

3. Due to your pseudonym, I've assumed you're a Rand fan, naming yourself after John Galt's buddy and 'privateer', Ragnar Danneskold. Why did you, a woman from what I hear on this blog, name yourself after a man? Are there no heroic Ayn Rand characters who are female?

4. Lastly, how does Objectivism comport with Catholic social teaching?

Posted by Dr. Liberal at November 11, 2012 01:44 PM
57. Nice try. I don't whine. I have never whined (I dare you to post an example and am confident you can't) and I do not tolerate nor do I ever reward whining in my family.

I don't worry about yesterday I plan for tomorrow. I understand why as liberals you have no concept of optimism. I'm cheerful, positive and don't give a fat rat's butt what people think of me. If you don't like me, that's your problem. I am true to myself.

Wanting liberals to get exactly what they want is not a whine. It is a lesson. Good luck to you as we have many examples in history of liberals getting exactly what they wanted. How'd that work out? Can anyone say GREECE? Spain? Italy? Portugal? Venezeula? Cuba?

Re 56 and my Catholic Church - what they should have been doing all along: not abandoning the tenets of the Church and turning Catholicism into an "I'm OK, you're OK, everyone's going to heaven" kind of place. That is a feel good lie. The fact that we finally have a Pope and some bishops that are finally telling people they are doing wrong, that they have endangered their souls by supporting and promoting practices contrary to church teaching is too little too late.

Your posts this week have all been spiteful and nasty

Your definition of "spiteful and nasty" must include telling you what you don't want to hear. That's the definition of immaturity. The FACTS are, as I have linked, we are in economic failure, that companies are laying off, firing and closing as a direct result of Obama's action and re-election. I'm sorry that ruins your celebration, but they are facts. Further, they will continue and get worse. The fact that I will withdraw all available investment monies is not "spiteful and nasty" it is sound economics for my family. The fact that I think the GOP should let you have what you want to your ultimate ruin is not "spiteful and nasty", it is a hard lesson that needs to be taught again to ideologues who never seem to learn.

I like pirates - Pittsburgh and Gasparilla.

I have no problem enjoying Rand with absolutely no conflict in my faith. I am far more than the one dimensional being you seem to attribute to any/all conservatives. I choose and enjoy characteristics, philosophies and heroes from history, fiction and the truths of my faith.

It's a more difficult question why you only see conservatives as one dimensional. I don't believe that you are guided and governed by only Marx. I simply believe you are too simplistic in your world view. I think you see life through cloudy gauzy abstracts while I see black and white, good and bad, right and wrong. I believe you want to solve injustice, but I think your methods are illogical, punishing, unjust and always fail. I believe you want us all to be good stewards of the earth, but I also believe you want to punish people into doing so. You never give credit for any way except your own. You don't believe a "bad" hunter or an "evil" capitalist has any interest beyond the hunting or the money making. You don't seem to realize we want a good and plentiful earth for our children as much as you do.

You take your one dimension idea of conservatives as ascribe it to evil.

I simply believe liberals are and have repeatedly been proven WRONG.

You seem to revel in believing we conservatives are evil & one dimensional.

On the other hand, I continue to hope you can learn from your mistakes; that you will mature enough to consider ideas outside your own ideology as worthy of consideration.

I may be wrong in that hope, but I'm not the one worse off if I am.

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 11, 2012 02:22 PM
58. @57 RagnarDanneskold on November 11, 2012 02:22 PM
@52 RagnarDanneskold on November 11, 2012 11:01 AM,

So, do you recommend Speaker Boehner and the House Republicans support the Family Business and Tax Cut Certainty Act of 2012?

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 11, 2012 02:36 PM
59. The fact that I will withdraw all available investment monies is not "spiteful and nasty" it is sound economics for my family.

My banker has been after me to invest more heavily in America, and I'm looking forward to having him buy my favorite stocks at fire-sale prices. You see, I believe in our great country and our hard-working people, even if you have lost your patriotism.

Meanwhile, are you going to give some of that money to an international organization which coddles and protects child molesters? Because Ayn Rand was always such a huge supporter of organized religion, correct?

Posted by tensor at November 11, 2012 03:10 PM
60. "we are in economic failure, that companies are laying off, firing and closing as a direct result of Obama's action and re-election"

My, such an overwrought, over-the-top response to a right-of-center candidate winning the highest office in the land. You really ought to let Doctor Steve help you, Ms. Rags. I really do think that some intensive therapy and a few pills could have you believing in America again. Hmm, and if that doesn't work we could try applying a suitable amount of voltage.

"I have never whined"

LMFAO!! You're just too funny, Ms. Rags.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 11, 2012 04:41 PM
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Posted by isabel marant sneakers pas cher at November 11, 2012 06:10 PM
64. The bastard won because he had a lying media and an army of cheaters working to rig the election.

Why is the House not launching a full scale investigation into the scores of incidents of election fraud?

Where are the Republicans who are in control of the House.

What is wrong with them?

Posted by JoeBandMember at November 11, 2012 06:38 PM
65. @64 "Where are the Republicans who are in control of the House.

What is wrong with them?"

Sigh! So many things, Joe.

Say, have you considered secession? It seems to be all the rage with you people, and I do mean rage.

http://now.msn.com/15-states-start-petitons-to-leave-the-usa

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 11, 2012 07:06 PM
66. tensor, I repeat, I am taking my money with the intention of paying the 15% capital gains versus the probability of it doubling. I've already paid taxes on it when it was income. I took the risk. I let someone else USE the money and now I want it back.

"I have never whined"
LMFAO!! You're just too funny, Ms. Rags.
Posted by Doctor Steve at November 11, 2012 04:41 PM

And yet, still no proof.

Overwrought on the failing economy? I hardly think so. Go look at the other post for the links and headlines of the layoffs and the number of companies doing them. Hells bells, the government gave us further proof after the election when it informed us that food stamp use is again at another all time high. With an economy barely growing a 2%, layoffs across all sectors at the biggest consumer shopping time of the year ... please, tell us how that's going to prove your misquided notion of an economy in recovery.

Here's the bottom line: you loud lefty's came rushing over here to SP expecting, hoping, wanting to see conservatives in despair over our loss equal to your exhuberance over your win. You didn't because that's simply not who we are. We were disappointed, we accepted our part in the loss and we look to the future. We KNOW it's one election; it's not cancer, it's not a life sentence or a death sentence. We let you down with our lack of despair and you didn't like it one bit, which is why we had/have the crowing, the taunting, the name-calling, the projection.

I will take the chance of speaking for every conservative in this forum in thanking you for proving our point yet again. ... and still not even knowing it.

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 11, 2012 07:33 PM
67. MikeBoyScout is either autistic, unemployed, or both. Between writing his angry screeds and formatting them, Mike must spend hours each day on SoundPolitics alone. Just search for his handle and on Page 1 alone of Google the following comes up:

http://www.dailykos.com/blog/MikeBoyScout/

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Profile?oid=14491347

http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/mikeboyscout

http://open.salon.com/blog/mikeboyscout/2008/11/16/corporatea_time_to_re-_think

http://horsesass.org/?p=47015&cpage=1

http://seekingalpha.com/user/261515/profile

http://www.youtube.com/user/MikeBoyScout

This guy is actively registered and commenting on nearly every political site out there, racking up hundreds--maybe thousands--of comments at a number of them. In fact, in the cosmic vacuum left by liberalism Mike has become so existentially needy as to adopt leftism in a way most of would consider a full-blown religion. According to one his many diaries at the Daily Kos he flew into swing states like Colorado this last election cycle literally going door-to-door trying to convert people as any missionary would.

Anyway, just might give you some insight into this guy. Definite personality disorder here. Maybe SP can trace his IP and see which employer, if any, he's ripping off? Surely this hobby of his must consume the equivalent of a full work day each day.

Posted by gulliver at November 11, 2012 08:04 PM
68. @67

MBS also appears to be drunk, stoned or both when he comments. Probably a public employee.

Posted by Leftover at November 11, 2012 08:58 PM
69. The outcome was the fault of the Romney campaign, not Mitt Romney, although he could also be chastised for sticking with them. Mr. Romney was more of a business - Mr. Fix-it, but thanks largely to his campaign - he never really made the sale - unlike Reagan who faced a similar debacle from the incumbent back in 1980.

Demagoguery that is not responded to became effective demagoguery. It made the 11 million fewer voters than 2008 not want to participate, as the opposition campaign cast some enough doubt on Mr. Romney to keep that many voters from voting for anyone - a sad commentary. Pathetic reaching out to Hispanic voters did not help. Demagoguery in Spanish by Obama's campaign stuck because it was not effectively rebutted. This campaign may have been worse than McCain's campaign and the lack of information left a worse aftertaste and made the conservative pundits look like partisan hacks, no thanks to Stuart Stevens, Matt Rhoades and their incompetent crew. Frank Luntz summed it up well in the link below.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/viewers-ought-to-be-outraged-pollster-frank-luntz-explains-where-republicans-failed-in-2012/.

Posted by KDS at November 11, 2012 09:10 PM
70. Ragnar@66 babbles, "I am taking my money with the intention of paying the 15% capital gains versus the probability of it doubling. I've already paid taxes on it when it was income. I took the risk. I let someone else USE the money and now I want it back."

You seem to be seriously confused about how taxes work. The part you already paid taxes on (the principal), whis the part you sweetly let someone else use, and which you now want back, won't be taxed again, not now and not ever, regardless of whether you take your monies back now or keep them invested. The only part you will pay taxes on is the gains, which is new money for you, which you've never paid taxes on, and which will be taxed at a lower rate than what people earn from actually doing productive work.

Posted by Bruce at November 11, 2012 09:46 PM
71. "And yet, still no proof."

Delusional one, your comments are the proof. You're just too damned dense to see it.

"We were disappointed"

LMFAO!! Oh, Rags, you're just too damned funny!! Gawd, I love it when wingnut heads explode. Where's RickyD? I want to see that jerk's head explode too.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 11, 2012 10:14 PM
72. The liberal mantra seems to bounce around between these themes: "Prosperity Through Taxation", "Higher Living Through Higher Taxes" and "Raising Taxes will Float All Boats".

Posted by SouthernRoots at November 11, 2012 10:20 PM
73. "Go look at the other post for the links and headlines of the layoffs and the number of companies doing them."

A few wingnut bosses taking out their anger and frustration on their employees for having their asses handed to them. That's your proof?? Good grief, Rags, haven't you even a lick of sense?

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 11, 2012 10:21 PM
74. There is noticeably a bundle to know about this.I assume you made certain nice points in features also.

Posted by ?????? ?????? 2013 at November 11, 2012 10:24 PM
75. "The liberal mantra seems"

Apparently you haven't a lick of sense either. I love the way you wingnuts make shit up and then condemn it as being liberal.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 11, 2012 10:30 PM
76. Note to conservative posters - Never say liberal without adding progressive after it. Liberal progressive implies liberal fascist.

Posted by KDS at November 11, 2012 10:37 PM
77. "Demagoguery that is not responded to became effective demagoguery. It made the 11 million fewer voters than 2008 not want to participate"

Uh-huh, yeah, sure. Look, my wingnut friend, if you're hoping to ever get a grip on reality you're really gonna have to stop making stuff up and then believing it's true. Really, KDS, delusions have a very lousy future, kind of like your political party.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 11, 2012 10:39 PM
78. "Liberal progressive implies liberal fascist."

Commie-fascism. LMFAO!! You people are too damned funny.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 11, 2012 10:46 PM
79. Making "stuff" up? Did you just blindly re-elect Obama and other Democrats, or did you actually listen to their speeches and ads?

Every ad and position of the Democrats started with the demand that the rich "pay a little more" and that this would be the start to solving the economic woes the country has been in.

That the rich are not "paying a little more" has been used as the pretext for why the economy has stalled.

So strong is their feeling that it is financially critical for the economic improvement of our country that the rich "pay a little more" in taxes, Obama, Axelrod, Reid, and other prominent Democrats have decided that any deal on sequestration can not move forward unless taxes are raised on the rich.

The need to raise taxes on this portion of our society is so strong that they are willing to let the Obama/Democrat extended Bush tax cuts expire on Dec 31st resulting in the largest tax increase ever on Americans.

If Republicans cave to this, and agree to make the rich "pay a little more", the Treasury might receive about $70 billion more a year (CBO say $700 billion over ten years).

While it does sound like a lot of money, it hardly makes a dent in $1.2 trillion dollar deficits.

Yet, this is what Obama spoke of constantly as a way to improve our economy. DelBene had multiple ads about taxing the rich.

No Doctor Steve, I don't make this "stuff" up. I just repeat what I have heard from the Democrats, albeit with my own sense of humor.

Apparently, the medications you are stealing from your workplace have consumed any sense of humor you might have had once.

Posted by SouthernRoots at November 11, 2012 10:54 PM
80. "According to one his many diaries at the Daily Kos he flew into swing states like Colorado this last election cycle literally going door-to-door trying to convert people as any missionary would."

Apparently you don't know what hit you. GOTV efforts like Mike's is how Romney got his ass handed to him.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 11, 2012 10:55 PM
81. Uh-huh, yeah, sure. Look, my wingnut friend, if you're hoping to ever get a grip on reality you're really gonna have to stop making stuff up and then believing it's true. Really, KDS, delusions have a very lousy future, kind of like your political party.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 11, 2012 10:39 PM

Look, my liberal fascist dissenter, you can't handle the truth and are not smart enough to recognize it even when it is staring you in the face. I already accused you of making stuff up so you throw it back without any substance - it was what it was. No delusions here - put down the bong and understand that you want to live in Greece to assuage your narcissistic juvenile ego.

Posted by KDS at November 11, 2012 10:56 PM
82. "That the rich are not "paying a little more" has been used as the pretext for why the economy has stalled."

Um, no. That would be the abject failure of thirty years of Reaganomics.

"No Doctor Steve, I don't make this "stuff" up."

Of course you do. In fact, you just did it again. You really can't help yourself, can you?

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 11, 2012 11:00 PM
83. Fools like Doctor Steve (who is a doctor only in his own mind) only vote for their party regardless of how atrocious the Democrat candidate is. I challenge him to name all of the US Representatives from the State of Washington - show us what you really know.

Unfortunately we live in a polarized nation, which is largely a product of gerrymandering by both parties. Look how much more polarized we are since 1992 because of it. Both parties are to blame for this and as a result the financial cliff will likely occur.

Posted by KDS at November 11, 2012 11:03 PM
84. "Look, my liberal fascist dissenter"

Um, excuse me, but that's "commie-fascist". Don't you know anything? LMFAO!!

"No delusions here"

Oh, Lordy!! You're too funny.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 11, 2012 11:05 PM
85. "I challenge him to name all of the US Representatives from the State of Washington - show us what you really know."

How about we try something more difficult, like you counting to ten with your left foot. C'mon, wingnut, I've seen a horse do it with his hoof. Let's see what you can do.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 11, 2012 11:09 PM
86. 30 years of failed Reaganomics? Better get back with your handlers - the party line is that raising taxes to the levels of the Clinton years will make the economy prosper just like it did them. This would indicate that Reagan didn't do some much damage that Clinton couldn't "fix-it" during his administration.

Using the Clinton years as a model for moving "Forward" again brings us back to the premise that the Democrats believe that higher taxes will bring a significantly improved economy.

If that is not what they really believe, then what cynical game are they playing against the American public with their screeching about higher taxes for the rich? Are they trying to destroy or cow the rich class? The Democrats do spend a lot of time making different groups of people mad at other groups of people, blaming the problems of one group on the uncaringness or greed of another group. Maybe this talk of taxation is just a front to foment dissension amongst different groups of Americans. Why?

Maybe all it comes down to is power and control.

I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Posted by SouthernRoots at November 11, 2012 11:30 PM
87. "Maybe this talk of taxation is just a front to foment dissension amongst different groups of Americans. Why?"

You silly. Conspiracy minded, are you? Doctor Steve can help you with that as well. Apply more voltage, Igor!

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 12:05 AM
88. Actions : Consequences

The Hard Fiscal Facts
Individual tax payments are up 26% in the last two years.

While the rest of America was holding an election last week, the gnomes at the Congressional Budget Office released the final budget totals for fiscal 2012. They're worth reporting because they illuminate the real fiscal choices that confront the country, as opposed to the posturing you'll be hearing over the next few weeks.

The nearby table lays out the ugly details. The feds rolled up another $1.1 trillion deficit for the year that ended September 30, which was the biggest deficit since World War II, except for each of the previous three years. President Obama can now proudly claim the four largest deficits in modern history. As a share of GDP, the deficit fell to 7% last year, which was still above any single year of the Reagan Presidency, or any other year since Truman worked in the Oval Office.

Tax revenue kept climbing, up 6.4% for the year overall, and at $2.45 trillion it is now close to the historic high it reached in fiscal 2007 before the recession hit. Mr. Obama won't want you to know this, but this revenue increase is occurring under the Bush tax rates that he so desperately wants to raise in the name of getting what he says is merely "a little more in taxes."Individual income tax payments are now up $233 billion over the last two years, or 26%.

Even if Mr. Obama were to bludgeon Republicans into giving him all of the tax-rate increases he wants, the Joint Tax Committee estimates this would yield only $82 billion a year in extra revenue. But if growth is slower as a result of the higher tax rates, then the revenue will be lower too. So after Mr. Obama has humiliated House Republicans and punished the affluent for the sheer joy of it, he would still have a deficit of $1 trillion.

Most of our readers know all this, but we thought you'd like some new evidence to rebut the kids who voted for your taxes to go up when they return from college for Thanksgiving. Maybe they'll figure it out when they have a job, if they can find one.

A Pyrrhic Victory for America's Youth
Will the president's young fans stop dancing when the entitlement bill comes due?

Dancing in Chicago, young voters gleefully celebrated President Obama's victory. Indeed, voters younger than 30 may well have changed the outcome of the race. They represented 19 percent of all voters, even more than they did in 2008, and they favored President Obama by 60 to 37 percent, according to exit polling.

One college student asked me, "What exactly are they so excited about?"

Presumably, they aren't celebrating their job prospects. Under this administration, unemployment of younger Americans and recent college graduates is not very different from the scandalous unemployment rates of youth in failing European countries whose misguided economic policies are creating a nearly jobless generation.

Presumably, they aren't celebrating the increasing tax burdens awaiting the lucky few of them -- mainly those who have studied hard and long and spent a great deal on both the direct and indirect (from delayed entry into the work force) costs of advanced education -- who will finally attain lucrative jobs.

And presumably, they aren't celebrating the changes in health care for themselves and their future children directly caused by the now inexorable progression of their president's signature legislation. The list of unwelcome changes is long:

Presumably, the young voters who approved of the past four years and chose this year to follow the path set forth by President Obama know exactly what's in store.

Well, I say go for it, keep on dancing, but watch out when the music stops.


November 7, 2012: Obama's Unluckiest Day?
The president bought the next four years at a great cost.

... One of the most common reasons why fortune can turn into misfortune is that the long-term consequences of the apparent good luck are very expensive. This idea is embodied in a chess concept of the "poisoned pawn," where you are offered a free pawn in exchange for creating a fatal flaw in your position. It's an experience many American students know about.

... Time will tell whether November 7, 2012, will prove to be Barack Obama's greatest moment of fortune or misfortune; it will show whether Mitt Romney missed his chance to be Mariano Rajoy. Leo Linbeck III wrote at the time:

The President ran a brilliant campaign. He ran overwhelmingly negative ads, early and focused and targeting the battleground states. He was able to define Romney, and his messaging was perfectly calibrated for his target audiences. Given his first term record, he really had no other choice, and his execution was first-rate.

But now he will reap what he sowed. His pretense of being a uniter, someone who can reach across the aisle and work together to solve pressing problems, lies in ruins. Whatever reservoir of goodwill and trust that existed in January 2009 is now bone dry.

So, yes, he won. But it will almost certainly be a Pyrrhic victory. He chose to divide the country deeply to win his second term. He will find that the nation he will again lead is not governable by him, and he may have tipped it to where it is not governable by anyone. He is so deeply despised by so much of the country that he will never be able to do what needs to be done (assuming he even wanted to, which does not appear likely).

The reaping will begin sooner than he probably expects. The ship of state is heading toward the Scylla and Charybdis of the fiscal cliff (in 2012) and Obamacare (in 2013). At work, we have been looking at the impact of Obamacare, and all I can say is that the average person has absolutely no idea how enormous the impact will be on their life. It will be an enormous shock to the system, and it will hit almost everyone in the country.

The president will, in other words, be saddled by the legacy of the previous administration. He bought the next four years at a great cost. Will it pay off? Or will he be like those college students who've found that getting into big time debt to get a degree in fashion, sculpture, and performance doesn't pay off? Maybe 2013 will be Verdun without the Voie Sacrée.

The most important thing about Allen West's demand for a recount in Florida is that unlike Romney, he's not giving up and is making the administration pay for every bite of that poisoned pawn. Is he doing this in the belief that he can really reverse the anomalies? Or is he doing it because he intuitively understands that he is ironically in a very enviable position: he has the freedom to attack what the other side must defend, at whatever cost?

Actions : Consequences

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 12, 2012 07:08 AM
89. Sane people best not squander precious time by reading leftist pollution of the likes of butt monkeys, fake Boy Scouts and mail-diploma doctors. Do we really have to read this crap for the next 1456 days, 13 hours and 49 minutes?

Posted by Father Time at November 12, 2012 07:08 AM
90. re 70

You seem to be confused. I RISKED my money on which I already paid taxes by allowing it to be used. If it is used well and makes some gains I am punished with taxes on MY risk. If it is used poorly and I end up with less, that is also a punishment.

If you want "fair", how about reimbursing me on my losses equal to the punishment on my rewards?

I suggest you look up the morality tale about the hen, the grain of wheat and the bread.


You all want the rich to pay more. You whine about roads and infrastructure that they are using. Well, the damned NON TAX PAYING 47% use them too. The 47% TAKERS use the same roads and infrastructure. The illegals use them, the con men and thieves use them, the exempt United Nations diplomats use them, the drug dealers use them - it's time THEY pay their "fair" share.

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 12, 2012 07:34 AM
91. How about we try something more difficult, like you counting to ten with your left foot. C'mon, wingnut, I've seen a horse do it with his hoof. Let's see what you can do.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 11, 2012 11:09 PM

Because, liberal fascist (that implies pinko, BTW), you are remedial in math. Your rhetoric is nonsensical and absurd. If the question I ask is so simple, then why don't you answer it ?
I don't believe you can,even though it is so simple because you are a MORON. You are incapable of having an adult conversation with someone who disagrees with your point and respond with ad-hominem attack. Grow up.

Posted by KDS at November 12, 2012 07:52 AM
92. "The 47% TAKERS"

Makers and takers. Simple thoughts for simple people.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 07:58 AM
93. "liberal fascist (that implies pinko, BTW)"

"You are incapable of having an adult conversation with someone who disagrees with your point and respond with ad-hominem attack."

LMFAO!! You're just too funny, KDS.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 08:02 AM
94. Dear "Doctor" Steve,
I'm going to quote someone dear to my heart from THIS blog comments section:

You send me your name and address, and then I'll come over and cut your pinky finger off with a hacksaw. Then we'll get you some prompt medical attention, sew it up, and you can live out the rest of your days with nine fingers. It won't really hurt your lifestyle all that much, or hurt your ability to make money in the future.

Hey now, don't protest. You've got way more fingers than you actually need. I mean, seriously - does a person really NEED 10 fingers? You can get by fine with less. You won't even miss it.

What? It's YOUR PINKY? How is that any different than it being THEIR PROPERTY?

Oh right, it's not. So you can go ahead and shove your collectivist nonsense where the sun don't shine.

I suggest "Doctor" Steve, you find that comment and read the rest by the same author. I suggest you watch the video and read ALL the comments.

Did you listen to it? People are going to buy what they want first, and THEN invest. This is just as true for the rich as it is for the middle class as it is for the poor.

I like donating to the Boy Scouts and the Salvation Army. By that I mean, I like putting a few bucks in their bucket when I walk out of the grocery store. But you know what? I buy my groceries first. If I don't have any spare change afterwards? Well, then they go without.

THAT'S the point they're making. The rich - like anybody else - are going to take care of their needs/desires before they take care of others. And why shouldn't they?

I suggest "Doctor" Steve, you watch the video and read ALL the comments.

But you won't.
Makers/Takers.
Actions : Consequences

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 12, 2012 08:13 AM
95. Samuel Johnson predicted our loud lefty's:

"Every man who attacks my belief, diminishes in some degree my confidence in it, and therefore makes me uneasy; and I am angry with him who makes me uneasy." - Samuel Johnson

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 12, 2012 08:21 AM
96. Higher taxes. LMFAO!!
Fiscal cliff. LMFAO!!
High unemployment. LMFAO!!
Record amounts of people on government assistance. LMFAO!!
Benghazi. LMFAO!!
$16 trillion in debt. LMFAO!!
$1 trillion in annual deficits. LMFAO!!
Fast and Furious. LMFAO!!
Hundreds dead in Mexico due to F&F. LMFAO!!
Sandy victims still in the cold and dark. LMFAO!!
Education costs rising faster than Democrats can spend to keep up. LMFAO!!
The primary tax increase championed by Democrats during the election will reduce the deficit by less than 10%. LMFAO!!

So enlightening to see what tickles Doctor Steve's funny bone.

Posted by SouthernRoots at November 12, 2012 08:28 AM
97. Layoffs are about Economics Not Revenge
In reality, it's not about revenge; it's about economics, something liberals do not understand or believe they can overcome by the force of their liberal will. When companies are taxed or forced to comply with draconian healthcare regulations, something's got to give.

Liberals will say, "Just raise prices." Easier said than done. People make purchasing decisions based on price. Eating out is a luxury for many people. If prices go up, a percentage of people will cut down on eating out. This will mean layoffs.

Those boycotting will also bring about layoffs since business at these companies will slow. The very thing the boycotters want to avoid - layoffs - they will cause - layoffs.

... Consider the luxury boat business. When Congress wanted to raise some money, it decided it would go after rich people who could afford a luxury item like high-priced boats. If the rich have a price threshold, then poor people and the middle class also have a price threshold on lower priced items.

In their rush to fix something, Congress created innumerable other problems. In the end, the people the new tax legislation was designed to help ended up being hurt.

Who was hurt most by the tax? The people who built the boats since many of them had to be laid off when boat sales dropped.

As they say, you can't fix stupid and liberals are economically stupid or they are economically malicious. They don't really care about the economy. They are mostly concerned about the elusive elixir called "equality" of outcome

Actions : Consequences

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 12, 2012 08:28 AM
98. Action : Consequences

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 12, 2012 08:30 AM
99. Election Consequences- Liberals Bitter Because Conservatives Were Right About Obama's Reelection

Liberals are bitter because conservatives were correct in predicting an Obama win for reelection would lead to layoffs, closures, cuts in worker's hours and hiring freezes.

Over the last week, since election night, companies have laid off workers, cut employee hours and warned of upcoming hiring freezes, many citing Obamacare as the reason.

Conservatives warned the electorate what would happen if Obama was reelected and hopes of repealing Obamacare were nixed. Jobs would be lost, unemployment would rise, companies would be forced to make heartbreaking decisions to continue to running at a profit and growth would slow down to snails pace.

Obama was reelected, liberals won, now they must lie in the bed they made.

Elections have consequences and those that voted for Obama should just STFU about those consequences of their own actions.

Businesses do not start a business to lose money. The purpose of creating a business, building it, expanding it and operating it, is to make money and anything that hinders that type of progress is changed, stopped or altered in order to bring the business back on track to make money.

Business 101 folks.

Welcome to the Obama economy..... Barack Obama, Democrats, Liberals and all that voted for him.... Congratulations, YOU built this.

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 12, 2012 08:49 AM
100. The 47% TAKERS use the same roads and infrastructure. The illegals use them, the con men and thieves use them, the exempt United Nations diplomats use them, the drug dealers use them - it's time THEY pay their "fair" share.

Ragnar, you reveal yourself...out from behind the bitter, bitter complaints and disgust and bunker-mentality...comes the greed.

We've been over this before - you seem unaware of who the '47%' is...

Those people who have no federal tax burden - a larger share right now than usual because of the Bush Depression we're still coming out of - are the working poor, the fixed-income elderly, the disabled (many veterans), and very young adults just starting their earning lives.

The sneering of "47%" as an venomous epithet is telling, very telling. One, you're not too bright, living in the bubble and regurgitating the right-wing talkingpoint du jour. Moreover, your squawking about these unfortunates and your demands that they pay more unmask a fundamental moral failing, a denial that the least among us be cared for and aided by the comfortable.

What would your Jesus say about your angry, bitter greed?

Posted by Dr. Liberal at November 12, 2012 09:10 AM
101. You know what gives me comfort?

The attitudes spat out so viciously on this blog are overwhelmingly held by older, white, religious parts of the populace.

You're disappearing. It's only a matter of time.

Posted by Dr. Liberal at November 12, 2012 09:13 AM
102. Ragnar. You are wasting too much time and energy trying to enlighten morons like Steve. I'll admit, there is no other way to engage his ilk except with ad-hominem attacks and calling bulls**t on them. They do not want an honest debate because they know they'd lose - deadbeats like them just want a welfare state and don't give a rats ass about hyperinflation or the future of this country.

Talking about issues like the pending fiscal cliff and our national security would elicit more thought-provoking comments than lamenting about an election that is history. Just sayin'

Posted by KDS at November 12, 2012 09:17 AM
103. I would personally like to thank Ragnar for all the links to the right-wing fever swamp.

Endless hilarity - thank you.

Keep reading and believing that stuff, too - those were there people who couldn't imagine Romney not winning - the shit even Willard was believing - one could hardly dream-up a more potent tool for us left-wingers if we tried.

Reality-interference field, indeed.

Posted by Dr. Liberal at November 12, 2012 09:18 AM
104. The attitudes spat out so viciously on this blog are overwhelmingly held by older, white, religious parts of the populace.

You're disappearing. It's only a matter of time.

Posted by Dr. Liberal at November 12, 2012 09:13 AM

You are an old white guy what is consumed by guilt. You will disappear too - its just a matter of time and it can't happen too soon. What was your point ?

Posted by Dr. Liberal's shadow at November 12, 2012 09:21 AM
105. The attitudes spat out so viciously on this blog are overwhelmingly held by older, white, religious parts of the populace.

You're disappearing. It's only a matter of time.

Posted by Dr. Liberal at November 12, 2012 09:13 AM

You are an old white guy that is consumed by guilt. You will disappear too - its just a matter of time and it can't happen too soon. What was your point ?

Posted by Dr. Liberal's shadow at November 12, 2012 09:21 AM
106. "The sneering of "47%" as an venomous epithet is telling, very telling."

Rags sneers at Auntie Em, a woman who worked hard for a Galtian Lord all of her life, saved a little money, paid into SS, and is now 75 years old and is just trying to get by on her SS and meager savings as she works with charities to help those even less fortunate than herself. But Auntie Em is a "taker" and deserving of Rag's scorn. It's a crying shame that "giver" isn't in Rag's vocabulary because that's the word that truly describes Auntie Em. But no, in Rag's Randian world view there are only makers and takers. As I said, simple thoughts for simple minds.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 10:06 AM
107. "So enlightening to see what tickles Doctor Steve's funny bone."

You haven't a damned clue as to what tickles my funny bone so once again you resort to making shit up. Making shit up and believing it. In case you didn't know, and I'm quite sure you don't, that's why you live in an alternate reality, Bubba.

Heh. Alternate realites. Did you know that Doctor Steve can help you with that?

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 10:14 AM
108. @107 - Go back to under the rock you crawled out from.. No one cares about your pain...

Posted by KDS at November 12, 2012 10:19 AM
109. "No one cares about your pain..."

Love the dots...

I see that you're still making shit up and believing it, KDS. I'm sure I've already mentioned that delusions have a really lousy future.

Sorry, KDS, but the only pain I've discussed here was "The Pain" of the late Wingnut Bob, a self-glorified "maker", a Galtian Lord who repeatedly spiked the ball at the 40 yard-line but who never knew the endzone. So sad. Geez, Bob will never see his vision of white militias roaming the streets of a Detroit under white Republican Emergency Manager rule and shooting black folks come true. My, that really is sad, isn't it?

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 10:36 AM
110. Is the KDS here the same as the one who said this?


27. The Democrat party's best friend is voter fraud. This is the only way Obama has a chance to win Ohio. This country is a banana republic when it comes to having clean elections. Canada makes us look like retards when it comes to clean elections.
Voter ID is only part of the answer. The other portion of maintaining clean and honest elections is cleaning the voter rolls before every major election, which many states including this one does not do.

It has recently been demonstrated that Norm Coleman would have defeated Al Franken in 2008, if over 1,000 illegal votes for Franken had not been included. This information is available via Google or Bing.
Posted by: KDS on October 20, 2012 10:44 AM


Because it would seem the election last week was very clean and Obama cleaned Romney's clock.

Is there any disputing that?

The crazy people who comment and post here really do need help. psychological help.

Posted by observer at November 12, 2012 11:18 AM
111. Ragnar@90 writes, "I RISKED my money on which I already paid taxes by allowing it to be used. If it is used well and makes some gains I am punished with taxes on MY risk."

No, you risked the principal, and you don't pay any further taxes on that. The gains are your reward over and above the amount you risked. You've never yet paid taxes on those. And those taxes aren't a punishment, they're part of the responsibility of living in our great nation.

"If you want "fair", how about reimbursing me on my losses equal to the punishment on my rewards?"

What a great idea! They should change the tax code to let you deduct losses! Then Ragnar will agree it's fair!

Posted by Bruce at November 12, 2012 11:41 AM
112. "Doctor" Steve,

You use a lot of invective, but you fail to refute any point raised.

You delight in accusing people of making "stuff" up, but you fail to back that up with facts.

If you don't feel the list I presented is funny, then say so and say why.

If you feel the list I presented is incorrect, tell me why.

If you feel that Democrats really do have a functional plan to solve our deficit and debt problem, then by all means, let me know what those details are. I read Obama's plan and didn't find those details.

Maybe it is due to attitudes and responses such as yours that dialogue in this country has degenerated to it's current level of impasse.

Right now, you give me the impression that you care more about scoring sophomoric points against your opponents than you do about discussing and presenting solutions to the very real problems our country still faces.

Posted by SouthernRoots at November 12, 2012 11:48 AM
113. Because it would seem the election last week was very clean and Obama cleaned Romney's clock.

Is there any disputing that?

Posted by observer at November 12, 2012 11:18 AM

Yes, there is. Allen West is contesting his election in Florida. Go ahead and be ignorant and clueless if you want to believe that. What's wrong with Voter ID laws, Observer ?

Posted by KDS at November 12, 2012 12:21 PM
114. "Because it would seem the election last week was very clean "

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/election-fraud-obama-won-more-than-99-percent-of-the-vote-in-more-than-100-ohio-precincts

Posted by SN at November 12, 2012 01:07 PM
115. SN,

And Romney got skunked in Philadelphia too

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/20121112_In_59_Philadelphia_voting_wards__Mitt_Romney_got_zero_votes.html

A shut out or near shut out is not an indication of cheating, it is indicative of a pathetically weak candidate.

Like I said, you guys need help.


@KDS at 113, are you the same guy who said that stuff in October?

Posted by observer at November 12, 2012 01:44 PM
116. @114 Florida also has had questionable voter registrations uncovered - a precursor to voter fraud, as well as Ohio. The amount that Obama was ahead (74,000 votes) was just over the 0.5% mandatory for a recount.

Chances are the illegal votes in Florida would have required a recount - although we now know that Florida and Ohio would not have changed the verdict. The best thing to cut down on the probability of voter fraud occurring is to keep pushing for Voter ID as a mandatory requirement.

It seems like the shrieks from the moonbats have abated for now. They have no facts, just invective and revisionist history to verbally vomit here.

Posted by KDS at November 12, 2012 01:49 PM
117. @115 - I stand by what I said below. Your last post makes no salient points - except that one section of leftwing Philadelphia had few voters for Romney/Ryan - no s**t Sherlock. Mr. Obama had more than 10 million fewer votes than in 2008. So, why are you against Voter ID - why do you like cheaters and advocate cheating ? Grow up !

"Voter ID is only part of the answer. The other portion of maintaining clean and honest elections is cleaning the voter rolls before every major election, which many states including this one does not do."


Posted by KDS at November 12, 2012 01:58 PM
118. "You use a lot of invective, but you fail to refute any point raised."

You didn't raise a single point. You attached "LMFAO!!" to a bunch of crap you made up, no doubt all pulled from your ass. Then, like the wingnut you are, you start barking orders at me to respond to your silliness.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 02:27 PM
119. @118 - From the staff and posters at SP; STFU !

Posted by Steve is a mental midget at November 12, 2012 02:43 PM
120. @ sad pathetic angry LOSER,

The only thing better than Bitter Wingnut Tears are an angry wingut's tripping off while they cry.

You LOSERS are so funny.


Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 12, 2012 03:02 PM
121. You didn't raise a single point. You attached "LMFAO!!" to a bunch of crap you made up, no doubt all pulled from your ass. Then, like the wingnut you are, you start barking orders at me to respond to your silliness.
Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 02:27 PM

I presented a list of current issues facing our country - they are not made up - they are fact. Obviously, you are too obtuse to be able to comprehend this.

I asked what your solutions would be to these issues. Each and every time, you have refused to engage in dialogue.

Not only are you an idiot, but you're so stupid you don't even realize it. You would prefer to call people names based on your poorly constructed stereotypes and probably as a pacifier to your severely overinflated ego's inability to have a normal discussion about real issues of the day.

Your conversational style has been reduced to bumper sticker slogans and mob chanting and that is no way to have a discussion.

Yes, I did use your "LMFAO" in the list to indicate my impression of your writings that you didn't take the debt/deficit/taxation issues currently before our country very seriously and that you think that anyone who does bring it up is a joke.

Get a grip.

Posted by SouthernRoots at November 12, 2012 03:04 PM
122. @120- Hey MBS - STFU !

Posted by Mike BS is a moonbat clown at November 12, 2012 03:11 PM
123. Rags sneers at Auntie Em, a woman who worked hard for a Galtian Lord all of her life, saved a little money, paid into SS, and is now 75 years old and is just trying to get by on her SS and meager savings as she works with charities to help those even less fortunate than herself. But Auntie Em is a "taker" and deserving of Rag's scorn. It's a crying shame that "giver" isn't in Rag's vocabulary because that's the word that truly describes Auntie Em. But no, in Rag's Randian world view there are only makers and takers. As I said, simple thoughts for simple minds. -Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 10:06 AM

Dear Doctor Dumb,

Do you understand the difference between the welfare and social security? Welfare takers, particulary those who generationaly know no other way simply have their hand out. people who get Social Security, Medicare PAID INTO IT. They have a financial stake in it and they are, yes, entitled to that stake.

It is inconceivable that you are that dumb to confuse the two.

Welfare Wealth Redistribution Now Accounts For Almost 20% Of The Economy...

Because it would seem the election last week was very clean and Obama cleaned Romney's clock. Is there any disputing that?

Yes, there is because 59 Philadelphia precincts and 9 Cleveland precincts reported NO voltes for Romney.

Yes, there is because 2 counties in Florida have reported voter percentages far above the number of RESIDENTS.

Yes, because many of the overseas military didn't receive ballots and the Obama administration typically ignored that fact.

Death spiral: Hours cut, workers pushed to part-time due to Obamacare; 'They keep cutting my hours'

Welcome to the USA; Third world nation

It's official - the United States of America has become a third world nation.

Tens of thousands on the East Coast are still without electricity, are coping with a fuel shortage that could last for weeks and are lacking access to basic necessities such as food, health care and shelter; FEMA, the government agency in charge of providing these necessities closes down when a slight storm is forecast while New York's Mayor Michael Bloomberg refuses to allow the National Guard to patrol the crime ridden streets despite the pleas of local officials because he believes only the police should have guns; the overwhelmed Red Cross is unable to help much.

But never fear, foreign help is on the way.

Médecins Sans Frontières/ Doctors Without Borders is presently providing vital medical care to countries suffering from "man made disasters" eg, wars, violence and ethnic strife in such countries as Syria, Sudan and Honduras or enduring natural ones such as flooding in Pakistan or drought in Chad. And now they're working in the U.S

... And what was the newly re elected leader of the country doing as so many of its citizens are suffering?

President Barack Obama is spending his first Saturday after winning reelection on the golf course. Today's outing is to the course on Andrews Air Force Base.

No Red Tape? Non-Union FEMA Crews, Water and Other Supplies Sit Idle Thanks To Unions & Red Tape

It's been two weeks since Hurricane Sandy killed 113 people, wiped out portions of towns, and knocked out power to millions. It has also been two weeks since Barack Obama pledged, "No bureaucracy. No red tape."

However, according to multiple public and private sources, unions and union-related red tape are causing workers from out of state to be turned back, as well as workers contracted by FEMA, as well as tons of supplies, already in New York and New Jersey to sit idle--at a cost of millions to taxpayers.


I guess the question to our loud, and now utterly obnoxious lefty's is this: why do you come here? To gloat? OK. Grow some balls, say so and move on.
Do you honestly think anyone here will have their mind and/or ideology changed by your obnoxious invective? Not likely.

We know the answer to why you're here. You prove yourselves with every keystroke.

You think you annoy us. You don't, except perhaps for KDS who does not suffer fools quietly. The rest of us find you laughable. And pathetic in your whorish sad need for attention.

And how do we know you are merely attention whores? You won and you still have a need to come here for validation.

Graciousness Vs. The Left

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 12, 2012 03:16 PM
124. "From the staff and posters at SP; STFU !"

Um, no.

"you didn't take the debt/deficit/taxation issues currently before our country very seriously"

Um, no. It's you I don't take seriously.

"I asked what your solutions would be to these issues."

Um, no, you didn't. You really ought to quit making shit up.

Glad I could clear that up for you.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 03:23 PM
125. @124 From @121 - "I asked what your solutions would be to these issues. Each and every time, you have refused to engage in dialogue."

Liar

Seems that you were asked and evidently you either are illiterate or senile.

"Not only are you an idiot, but you're so stupid you don't even realize it. "

Well stated and spot on, Roots

Glad I could clear that up for you.

Posted by KDS at November 12, 2012 03:29 PM
126. "Do you understand the difference between the welfare and social security?"

I do, but apparently you don't. You don't understand that many of the 47% you keep ragging on, Rags, are those on SS, people like Auntie Em.

"It is inconceivable that you are that dumb to confuse the two."

Indeed, that's quite inconceivable. But it's quite conceivable that you're dumb enough to continue lumping Auntie Em in with the 47% of so-called "takers" you hate on all the time.

"Grow some balls, say so and move on."

You're dumber than a stump, Rags. Grow some ovaries, say so and move on.

You just ragged on welfare "takers" as being the 47%, Rags. Tell me, Rags, what percentage of the nation is on welfare?

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 03:36 PM
127. Dear tensor,

Wealthy Dump Assets Amid Worries About Going Over 'Cliff'

Fearing an increase in capital gains and dividend taxes, many of the rich are unloading stocks, businesses and homes before the end of the year.

Wealth advisors say that with capital-gains taxes potentially going to 25 percent from 15 percent, and other possible increases in the dividend tax, estate tax and other taxes, many clients are selling now to save millions in taxes.

"Under almost any scenario, it makes sense to take the gains this year," said Gregory Curtis, chairman and managing director of Greycourt & Co. "Clients aren't selling willy nilly. But if they can and they have a huge gain, they're selling now."

... Taxes on dividends could go from 15 percent to over 43 percent.

... The most noticeable sell-off has been in stocks. Wealth managers many of their clients who have large gains on stocks are selling them now, or selling them or buying them back again to create a higher basis (and thus a lower tax bill later).

... Bankers say owners of private businesses are also pressing to sell their companies to ahead of a possible tax hike. If an entrepreneur, for instance, sells a company for $100 million, they could pay $10 million less in taxes than if they sold in 2013.

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 12, 2012 03:38 PM
128. Clown, make me.


Mittenfreude- the pleasure derived from the misfortunes of Mitt Romney and those who believe(d) and/or support(ed) him

You're soaking in it.

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 12, 2012 03:41 PM
129. "You won and you still have a need to come here for validation."

Hardly. I come here to rub your face in it because I don't like you and I get a kick out of doing it. Is that clear enough for you, Ms. Rags?

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 03:45 PM
130. Yes, it is absolutely clear enough.

And reveals much about the vacuum of your life if this is what you need to derive pleasure.

Thanks for confirming it.

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 12, 2012 03:53 PM
131. "Fearing an increase in capital gains and dividend taxes, many of the rich are unloading stocks, businesses and homes before the end of the year."

I take it that those America-lovin' rich you speak of are selling their homes and moving to the Randian paradise of Somalia.

Fear. You're stoked with it, aren't you? That's your problem, Rags, you live in fear. Normally I'd feel sorry for such a person but the way you run off at the mouth with your Randian hate of the so-called 47%, I have no sympathy for you whatsoever.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 03:54 PM
132. Enough of reading about the flawed attempts at schadenfreude.

You liberal prog moonbats are straight out of Lord of the Flies and locked in your parallel universe. You and your gnat-like attention spans will be gone before you can say "gotcha".

Posted by KDS at November 12, 2012 03:59 PM
133. However, according to multiple public and private sources, unions and union-related red tape are causing workers from out of state to be turned back, as well as workers contracted by FEMA, as well as tons of supplies, already in New York and New Jersey to sit idle--at a cost of millions to taxpayers.

So, that's all you've got -- rumors from un-named sources -- to contradict Gov. Christie's on-the-ground assessment of how President Obama's administration really performed. All you've got left are angry, bitter lies. Good luck winning elections with your rumors, myths, and smears; the rest of us, who don't give up on America like you miserable Summer patriots, will continue working with President Obama, Governor Inslee, Senator Cantwell, and our own friends and neighbors to build a better America and a better world. Enjoy eating that pile of cash you spitefully removed from productive enterprises; my money will soon be invested where yours was.

Posted by tensor at November 12, 2012 04:04 PM
134. Sorry to burst your bubble, I neither want nor need your sympathy.

The folks selling homes are selling second homes or downsizing to smaller, less expensive homes and/or buying land.

My neighbor is selling his business. Onerous regulations and being punished for his achievement has made it no fun and no longer worth his effort, he tells me. Perhaps if/when we survive the economic disaster in chief, he'll feel ambitious again.

Perhaps, if/when we survive the economic disaster in chief folks like me will have faith enough to risk our capital. Until then, we'll sit on it, we'll take it out of the equation, we'll enjoy what it can buy us, we'll buy gold, guns, bullets, diamonds and safes to put them in. We'll do maximum legal cash transfers to our children, saving us all taxes and they'll put it in their safes.

We can't be forced to participate. Jobs will dry up further. Tax revenues will dry up further. Taxing the "wealthy" will become taxing YOU.

Actions : Consequences

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 12, 2012 04:09 PM
135. "And reveals much about the vacuum of your life if this is what you need to derive pleasure."

Vacuum? I took the last year off from work to help grieving families that have lost a child and to raise a few million for a charity. Besides fearfully digging your doomsday bunker and ragging on this blog about the 47% and telling the world how wonderful you are for living life in all your Galtian glory, WTF did you do?

I'm asking again, Rags, what percentage of the nation is on welfare? Would you say, um, 47%?

You're an imbecile, Rags. I thought you should know.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 04:12 PM
136. @133

I am ENDLESSLY impressed with Ragnar's ability to weave a cocoon of self-soothing myths and misapprehensions and received rightwing 'wisdom' around her that appears quite impervious to facts.

My assessment is that she is an unreconstructed culture warrior, pissed off about Vatican II, convinced of her own moral superiority, equally convinced that there are armies of 'moochers' genetically predisposed to being lazy and wanting her stuff, desirous down to her cold core for a fascistic amalgam of big business and the Catholic Church and an overbuilt military to conspire together to kill all the infidels and trade unionists and make sure we're worshiping 'God' and Rick Santorum in our schools and offices. Sort of like Pat Buchanan.

Posted by Dr. Liberal at November 12, 2012 04:12 PM
137. we'll buy gold, guns, bullets, diamonds and safes to put them in

Oh, whoa....BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!

Ragnar, you are precious.

Posted by Dr. Liberal at November 12, 2012 04:15 PM
138. We can't be forced to participate. Jobs will dry up further. Tax revenues will dry up further. Taxing the "wealthy" will become taxing YOU.

OH. MY. GOD.

Watch out, everybody!!!!

She's....GOING GALT!!!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!

Oh, now I have to clean my monitor off, damn you Ragnar.

Posted by Dr. Liberal at November 12, 2012 04:17 PM
139. .
(un)SP Wingnuts,

You do know that your wingnut BS that you post here with such regularity helps liberals beat you like a drum in WA, don't you?

I can't begin to count how many times I've been talking with a voter and I wip out my tab and show them the deranged crap you guys write.

Keep up the good work. And please, stay in your hermetically sealed bubble.

And KDS, it is your side that is fading away into oblivion. As Warren says, do the math.

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 12, 2012 04:20 PM
140. "Perhaps if/when we survive the economic disaster in chief, he'll feel ambitious again."

What a pathetic statement. Do you mean to say that he had no ambition whatsoever until the 2000's when Bush lowered taxes? Good grief!

You and your overwrought, unfounded fears. Have I mentioned that Doctor Steve can help you with that?

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 04:20 PM
141. I took the last year off from work to help grieving families that have lost a child and to raise a few million for a charity.

Righto - and we'll take your word for it. Still looking for that validation, eh?

Because the truly charitable, the truly giving find no need for accolades.

Matthew 6:2 "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.

You're an imbecile, Rags.

Impressive command of the language, "doctor". I call that final devolution to outright name-calling GAME, SET, MATCH.

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 12, 2012 04:22 PM
142. @140

"Overwrought"

That's absolutely perfect, Steve. Perfect!

I was having trouble putting my finger on it...that toxic combination of hysteria and self-righteousness, of smarmy self-satisfaction married to credulous belief in every Pajamasmedia or Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck bullshit to slosh through the intertubes, decorated with incredible claims of 'going Galt' that would make Ayn Rand blush in embarrassment, bursting with poorly-denied impotent rage.

Overwrought. Perfect.

Posted by Dr. Liberal at November 12, 2012 04:27 PM
143. .
@134 RagnarDanneskold on November 12, 2012 04:09 PM,

Somehow I doubt we'll live to see you go Galt.
But if you do, and lock up all your worldly possessions in your safe, don't bother calling the publicly funded police when the thieves who know that homes are easier to rob than banks steal all your junk.

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 12, 2012 04:29 PM
144. Do your rants and name-calling make you feel superior?
Does it really take so little?
What does that say about you?

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 12, 2012 04:31 PM
145. GAME, SET, MATCH.

There you are spiking the ball on your own 20th yard line and doing a deeply embarrassing 'victory' dance.

I can understand your need to demand to dictate the rules and outcomes of our political sparring, it's in your nature, but this sort of grandiose behavior utterly untethered to reality is what got you people in trouble in the first place. This is what left Willard 'shellshocked' on the evening of Nov 6.

This is living in the bubble, and you should try to resist it.

Or not. We like winning elections.

Posted by Dr. Liberal at November 12, 2012 04:32 PM
146. Reduced to personal threats now, mikey?

What does that say about you?

I know.

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 12, 2012 04:33 PM
147. @144 RagnarDanneskold on November 12, 2012 04:31 PM,

What does that say about you?

It says we, the "blahs", the takers, the immigrants, teh gays, ... won. and you LOST.

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 12, 2012 04:34 PM
148. @147 RagnarDanneskold on November 12, 2012 04:33 PM,

I'm sorry if you read what I wrote about the FACT that thieves know that robbing homes is easier than robbing banks as a "personal threat". It wasn't. It's a fact Rags. That's why there are banks.

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 12, 2012 04:37 PM
149. You understand NOTHING about conservatism and certainly nothing about me.

The only thing that makes sense to you, as evidenced by your posts, is the visceral need to tear down that which you hate because you can't understand it.

I'm tough, I can take it.

I know who isn't and can't - do you?

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 12, 2012 04:37 PM
150. Ragnar...a serious question...who do you think 'the 47%' are?

Could you give me some demographic and sociological information on them that better illustrates what your complaints about them are?

Age, gender, ethnicity, income, history of military service, wealth, that sort of thing.

Who are these moochers of whom you speak?

Posted by Dr. Liberal at November 12, 2012 04:38 PM
151. @149
To whom are those comments directed? There are 3 or 4 or 5 of us liberals around here lately - who ya talking to?

Posted by Dr. Liberal at November 12, 2012 04:40 PM
152. Those damned commie-fascists at Motor Trend named the Tesla Model S the Car of the Year. They must come standard with Obamaphones or something.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 04:41 PM
153. It says we, the "blahs", the takers, the immigrants, teh (sic} gays, ... won. and you LOST.

Yep, you built that.

You own it.

It's the congratulations you've refused to accept for nearly a week.

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 12, 2012 04:41 PM
154. On a lighter note...see this:

http://gawker.com/5959783/28-years-ago-the-today-show-aired-the-greatest-interview-in-television-history

Posted by Dr. Liberal at November 12, 2012 04:46 PM
155. @153 RagnarDanneskold on November 12, 2012 04:41 PM,

Straight up I helped build that! Together with tens of thousands of volunteers we built a political machine that beat your side's SuperPAC grifting machine. Beat it like an old rug. Beat it in 10 of 11 swing states. Ran the table in WA.
Rags, think you'll live to see a Republican governor in WA? Unless you're 12, I don't think so.

And why didn't you sell all your stuff and go Galt when Obama won the first time and the markets of the world were in the tank as a result of "conservatism"?

I know why you didn't do it then and why you won't do it now.

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 12, 2012 04:50 PM
156. The 47% refers to the percentage of the population that pays no federal income tax.

Yes, if they own a home they pay property tax.
Yes, if they live in burdensome state they pay state income tax.
Yes, they pay sales tax.
Yes, if they have an salary they participate in Social Security and Medicare.
Yes, if they invest they pay on their gains.
Yes, they pay the horrendous list of fees, surcharges and other word manipulations that are really taxes.

But using/reaping the benefits and protections of the federal government (yes even a conservative acknowledges them) without participating in paying for them is a form of welfare in that you and I are paying FOR them. No, it's not a direct welfare transfer, but it is a benefit they receive and use.

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 12, 2012 04:52 PM
157. And why didn't you sell all your stuff and go Galt when Obama won the first time and the markets of the world were in the tank as a result of "conservatism"?

You don't know to what extent I did.. . or didn't. You ASSume.

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 12, 2012 04:54 PM
158. @151 - There are only 3-5 conservatives around here too, so call it even - so what's your point besides the one on your pointy fried-inside head ? Yes, its us the providers vs. you the leeches or takers/Occu-poopers if that's how you want to label it.

Mike BS- I am an independent, libertarian and not a registered Rethuglican. I am a fiscal conservative and a social moderate.

So far it has been the battle of name-calling or gotchas and to see who can be the biggest haters - which you lib progs are ahead. It has little or no substance though - Lord of the Flies rules ?

Your boy Obama is the worst president in the last 80 years, even worse than Nixon, who was also elected twice. Nothing can take that away from him except him changing course.

Posted by KDS at November 12, 2012 04:56 PM
159. .

Newt Gingrich - the voice of Republican reason

"First of all the president did very, very effective campaign. Second, I think that the country was looking at a different set of things than we were looking at. And I think Republicans are going to have to take a very serious look at what happened and why did it happen, and why were we not more competitive at the presidential level.

SHORTER: First, the guy we ran as being a better manager could not run a 3 hour TV show let alone effectively manage a national campaign. Second, the issues we believe and talk about all the time are rightfully viewed by the American public as batshit crazy.

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 12, 2012 04:59 PM
160. No, I don't think I'll see another conservative governor in WA.

But then I don't have to stay here either. So far I have chosen to. But you seem to forget there are CHOICES and more desirable/potentially more desirable places to live.
So far this is my choice. But that doesn't mean it will always be so, especially given that our children are far and wide as are our closest friends. It's a big country and a bigger world.

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 12, 2012 05:01 PM
161. "Righto - and we'll take your word for it."

I really don't give a rat's ass if you believe me or not, Rags. Apparently, all you've done of late is dig your doomsday bunker a little deeper.

Actually, I shared one thing some friends and I did for one family with my friend Dr. Liberal a few weeks ago. I've since learned that this grieving family we tried to help turns to what we did for them several times each day in order to help lift their spirits and ease the pain of their deep loss. In fact, what we gave them could possibly raise an awful lot of money for a charity if that's what they wish to do with it. It's up to them as we gave them something and now it's theirs to do with as they wish.

But what do you care? It's all about you, isn't it, Rags? I'm a giver and givers have no place your extremely limited world view of makers and takers. No, it's all about you and your wallowing in unfounded, overwrought* fears.

* Thanks, Doc, feel free to use it, um, liberally. heh.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 05:01 PM
162. @160 RagnarDanneskold on November 12, 2012 05:01 PM,

You're not fooling anybody. You're going nowhere.
You live to bitch and moan about the "moochers" while you belly up to the liberal paradise of western Washington.

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 12, 2012 05:04 PM
163. "But you seem to forget there are CHOICES and more desirable/potentially more desirable places to live."

And where's that? Somalia? That must seem like a Randian paradise to you.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 05:06 PM
164. "Doctor" S - Don't hurt your arm patting yourself on the back for facts no one could possibly verify. No hiding that light under a bushel for you. Nope, No, no, never, never, uh, uh uh.

Let me stroke your desiccated ego and give you a rousing "Bravo!"

Happy now?

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 12, 2012 05:07 PM
165. I have family in Italy, Florida, Nevada and Ohio I have close friends and property in the mountains of N. Carolina. We've been invited for extended stays in New Zealand, Philippines and Canada. I love Austria.

Sorry kiddo's, hubby criss-crossed the world in his business travels for the last 20+ years. We have options and more miles than we can possibly use. ... to say nothing of car rentals and hotel nights. Sigh, we'll have to buy our own food.

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 12, 2012 05:14 PM
166. @164 RagnarDanneskold on November 12, 2012 05:07 PM,

It's not about patting ourselves on the back, it is about beating the enemies of the people into submission.

There is no substitute for victory. - General Douglas MacArthur

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 12, 2012 05:14 PM
167. "Your boy Obama is the worst president in the last 80 years"

Geez, and here I thought he was the best right-of-center president this nation has had in office since Bill Clinton.

Yours is the opinion of a very stupid, even feeble-minded person.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 05:17 PM
168. t's not about patting ourselves on the back, submission.

I was referring to "doctor" steve's whine that we aren't bowing to the greatness of his "charity"

it is about beating the enemies of the people into submission.

Good luck with that bipartisanship you claim to desire, Mr Obama.

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 12, 2012 05:19 PM
169. @165 RagnarDanneskold on November 12, 2012 05:14 PM,

And yet you're still here?
And you'll be here next month.
And you'll be here next year.

...

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 12, 2012 05:20 PM
170. "Geez, and here I thought he was the best right-of-center president this nation has had in office since Bill Clinton."

That's because you are a bonafide libtard, Stevie. Clinton was the best president since Reagan, IMO. Unlike you, I have voted for more than one party in my life.

Posted by KDS at November 12, 2012 05:21 PM
171. I also post at a blog based in Indiana.

Maybe I'm there.

I also post at a blog based in Florida.

Maybe I'm there.

Stop ASSuming, assuming you can.

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 12, 2012 05:22 PM
172. @171 RagnarDanneskold on November 12, 2012 05:22 PM,

That you try so hard to convince me, your conviction shows us you're trying to convince yourself.

Would you like to come to Vegas on me, and play some poker with all your galtified possessions?
First Class there and all the way back from ...Indiana? :-D

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 12, 2012 05:26 PM
173. One reason that the Independent voter stayed home, besides the biased libtard media was the anti-abortion positions taken by some Republican candidates -




Too bad this was not stated in June but it will put future GOP candidates on notice and it should apply equally to dumb women candidates like Sharon Angle and Christine O'Donnell



Posted by KDS at November 12, 2012 05:29 PM
174. @173 KDS on November 12, 2012 05:29 PM,

Good News! Your physician visits and meds can be paid by ObamaCare!!

Yes, breitbart who was to "vet" Obama this time has the explanation for the crushing defeat Obama/Biden and the Democrats put on Gekko/Galt and the Republicans. HAHAHAHA

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 12, 2012 05:33 PM
175. "I was referring to "doctor" steve's whine that we aren't bowing to the greatness of his "charity""

You project too much, Rags. You're the one who wants us to bow before you and treat you as some Galtian Lord.

You deluded Randian ding-bat, you expressed doubt as to my charitable giving and so I backed it up, something that you don't seem capable of doing with your endless spewing about the 47%. I noted that Dr. Liberal has experienced with his own eyes and ears one of the charitable things my friends and I have done for a grieving family. The point of it all, which you seem not to grasp in the slightest, Rags, is that givers have no place in your extremely limited Randian world view that consists solely of makers and takers.

Apparently you do nothing with life other than stock ammo, dig doomsday bunkers and whine incessantly about imagined "takers".

I want a government that reflects my Christian values of brotherly love and charitable giving. I don't like you because you want a government that reflects your Randroid values of insatiable greed and selfishness. Well, it isn't going to happen for you so you can just move your sorry ass to Somalia. You can post from there and tell everybody here how much you love America and how we don't.

Gawd, you're such a loon.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 05:50 PM
176. "Yes, breitbart who was to "vet" Obama this time has the explanation for the crushing defeat Obama/Biden and the Democrats put on Gekko/Galt and the Republicans. HAHAHAHA

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 12, 2012 05:33 PM

Your comment had nothing to do with the article I posted. Why are you changing the subject again ? BTW- none of that doesn't detract from the fact that the President you voted for is a polarizing reverse racist son of a bitch. Other than that, he is a fine man, as is George W Bush. Back at ya'

Posted by KDS at November 12, 2012 05:57 PM
177. Gawd, you're such a loon.

Projection?

Posted by SouthernRoots at November 12, 2012 05:58 PM
178. "Projection?"

Sorry, but us commie-fascists don't do that. But as a Bob-certified Doctor, I can help you with that for a small fee if you wish. But before we proceed I need to ask a question of you. Do you have any qualms or perhaps religion-based objections to my applying a little voltage as part of your treatment?

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 06:08 PM
179. "Sorry, but us commie-fascists don't do that. But as a Bob-certified Doctor, I can help you with that for a small fee if you wish. But before we proceed I need to ask a question of you. "

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 06:08 PM

@178 Stevie, you aren't even a good liar.

Posted by KDS at November 12, 2012 06:18 PM
180. I want a government that reflects my Christian values of brotherly love and charitable giving.

You say the words, but your actions on this board and say that you are just making shit up.

Posted by SouthernRoots at November 12, 2012 06:18 PM
181. @176 KDS on November 12, 2012 05:57 PM

"BTW- none of that doesn't detract from the fact that the President you voted for is a polarizing reverse racist son of a bitch."

Oh, that's just the type of Bitter Wingnut Tears I love! And that's exactly germane to the brietbert.com article.

Speaking of George W. Bush, isn't it true that since Bush got more Mormon votes in 2004 than Gekko/Galt in 2012 Obama stole the election?
Like he did in Ohio?
Like he did in Pennsylvania?

And he's not "the President". He's your President.

Mittenfreude- the pleasure derived from the misfortunes of Mitt Romney and those who believe(d) and/or support(ed) him.

You're soaking in it.

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 12, 2012 06:21 PM
182. They are certainly not that awesome either XD.

Posted by longchamp pas cher at November 12, 2012 06:23 PM
183. "you aren't even a good liar"

What? You doubt that I'm a Bob-certified physician?? Just about every liberal posting here could attest to that fact.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 06:32 PM
184. BTW- none of that doesn't detract from the fact that the President you voted for is a polarizing reverse racist son of a bitch."

Did I also mention incompetent a prevaricator and math-challenged ? Oh, I just did.

MBS - You lib progs get the government you deserve, but I am exempt from that since I voted for Mitt Romney; a better candidate but a lesser campaigner. It is what it is.

Posted by KDS at November 12, 2012 06:33 PM
185. I obtained the leopard as well as hot green headphones to get my children birthday. It was the one she picked and once the headphones arrived we were holding not those that she needed or As i ordered. I did not have the amount of time to distribute them to come back and order a brand new pair. She said we were holding ok as well as she makes use of them quite frequently. I was initially disappointed the fact that wrong solution was sent.

Posted by noir longchamp at November 12, 2012 06:33 PM
186. "you are just making shit up"

Hmm, I can see now that you're going to require a significantly higher voltage if you're gonna be cured of what ails you. I'm thinking 480V, 3 Phase with a current flow of about 100A should do the trick. If not, your family can always stick you in a pot and use you as a Christmas tree for a few weeks until I devise a new treatment plan.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 06:40 PM
187. Hmm...apparently 20 states don't feel they deserve this kind of government. The states shown below want to secede from the union, including Oregon. Looks like this will need to be addressed by the White House. Yep, he is even worse than Nixon, Carter or Bush-43.

The US continues to suffer economic difficulties stemming from the federal government's neglect to reform domestic and foreign spending. The citizens of the US suffer from blatant abuses of their rights such as the NDAA, the TSA, etc. Given that the state of Texas maintains a balanced budget and is the 15th largest economy in the world, it is practically feasible for Texas to withdraw from the union, and to do so would protect it's citizens' standard of living and re-secure their rights and liberties in accordance with the original ideas and beliefs of our founding fathers which are no longer being reflected by the federal government.

The efforts come in the wake of Barack Obama securing a second term in the White House over Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney. From New York to South Carolina, the states where residents have filed secession petitions spans a wide range.

Texas GOP official Peter Morrison, treasurer of the Hardin County Republican party, argued for an "amicable divorce" from the United States last week.
"Why should Vermont and Texas live under the same government?" he wrote in an op-ed in a Tea Party newsletter, according to the Fort-Worth Star Telegram. "Let each go her own way."
Despite the rhetoric and number of secession petitions, it's unlikely states will be withdrawing from the United States. Robert Wilonsky at The Dallas Morning News points out that secession is not an option for the Lone Star State.
The White House website explains of the review process for petitions that get 25,000 signatures in a 30 day period: "If a petition meets the signature threshold, it will be reviewed by the Administration and we will issue a response."
States where residents have filed secession petitions include: Alabama, Arkansas, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas.

Posted by KDS at November 12, 2012 06:41 PM
188. @187 KDS on November 12, 2012 06:41 PM,

God are you thick!
And Stupid!

Why don't you file a petition for the State of Washington on the behalf of its resident wingnuts?

Life in the bubble.

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 12, 2012 06:51 PM
189. "The states shown below want to secede from the union, including Oregon."

Gawd, you're so full of shit, so stupid. The State of Oregon does not want to secede from the United States. Same with the other states. It's only some stupid, sore loser wingnuts filing petitions. That leaves the rest of your comment as nothing but an America-hatin' bullshit rant.

It would seem that you America-lovin' wingnuts love America so much that you'd bail out instead of fighting for what you believe in, no matter how delusional your beliefs might be. You're such a pathetic loser, KDS.

I'm gonna need more voltage.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 06:54 PM
190. @189 Doctor Steve on November 12, 2012 06:54 PM,

Not fair. You blinded him with science.

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 12, 2012 06:58 PM
191. @185 "I obtained the leopard as well as hot green"

Are you wingnut freaks harboring code-speaking Al Queda terrorists here or something? It figures, seeing as how you all hate America so much that you're talkin' secession.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 06:59 PM
192. Mittenfreude!!

Hi all, the reason I have so much free time to post online, fly around the country on political conversion missions, and even call into talk radio is because I'm an unemployed scoutmaster!!

Scoutmaster, you ask? Yes, I like little boys--hence the alias.

Mittenfreude!!

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 12, 2012 07:02 PM
193. @189 - WTF ? You are the one full of shit with a rectal cranial inversion, Stevie ! Do you know how to read ? It was nothing more than a direct quote from the article from yahoo.com.

Incompetent government, Stevie and you can't handle the truth that there are people in those 20 states who favor secession. Stuck on stupid, my adversary. You couldn't be a doctor out of a craker jacks box.

Posted by KDS at November 12, 2012 07:04 PM
194. "Why don't you file a petition for the State of Washington on the behalf of its resident wingnuts?'

KDS ought to be grateful for that one, Mike, seeing as how he's too damned stupid to think of it himself.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 07:05 PM
195. @189 - WTF ? You are the one full of shit with a rectal cranial inversion, Stevie ! Do you know how to read ? It was nothing more than a direct quote from the article from yahoo.com.

Incompetent government, Stevie and you can't handle the truth that there are people in those 20 states who favor secession. Stuck on stupid, my adversary. You couldn't be a doctor out of a cracker jacks box.

Posted by KDS at November 12, 2012 07:05 PM
196. @195 KDS on November 12, 2012 07:05 PM,

Be a man. Start your own petition.
Be a treasonous secessionist like your fellow true believers.

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 12, 2012 07:14 PM
197. "you can't handle the truth that there are people in those 20 states who favor secession"

Indeed, I struggle with the fact that America-lovin' teabaggers like you love this country so damned much that you'd pack up and leave because you're having a hissy-fit.

"You couldn't be a doctor out of a craker jacks box."

Says you. Please try to understand that I'm good enough at what I do to be Bob-certified.

I might have to move my clinic closer to the City Light substation because I'm gonna need significantly more voltage available to me if I'm going to treat this loon.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 07:14 PM
198. "to do so would protect it's citizens' standard of living and re-secure their rights and liberties in accordance with the original ideas and beliefs of our founding fathers which are no longer being reflected by the federal government"

Oh, great, Texas, where blacks are slaves and women can't vote. That's some vision you have there, KDS.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 07:20 PM
199. LMFAO ! Stevie, besides being ignorant - you are a Texas-bigot ?

It must hurt to be you...

Posted by KDS at November 12, 2012 07:27 PM
200. "you are a Texas-bigot ?"

Nah, I love Texas. I'm a KDS bigot. If you had even the slightest clue you'd have gotten that by now.

Cluelessness. Alas, voltage can't fix that, KDS. You're stuck with it.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 07:36 PM
201. Doctor Steve and I are in a relationship together arranged around our mutual love of sexual role-playing. As you can imagine, I get to be a boy scout, and he gets to be a doctor. Sometimes, when things get boring, we cruise for boys. Nobody scouts like Mike!

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 12, 2012 07:38 PM
202. "besides being ignorant"

Ah, projection. Now that I can treat. In fact, that's my specialty. Think voltage, KDS, and lot's of it.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 07:39 PM
203. Indeed, Atlas Shrugs
By Positively Republican Founder Chris Widener
... Our foundational problem is one of philosophy. Our national debate has become one that is between two fundamentally diametrically opposed philosophies. You cannot hold one position while holding the other. This is why we are so divided and why people on both sides see the other in such a negative light.

The battle for our nation's soul is the battle between Capitalism and Collectivism (or Socialism, Communism, or other relative synonyms). One side believes in free markets, the other in controlled markets. One believes in individual rights, the other in group rights. One believes in personal charity, the other in government charity. One believes in smaller government, the other in bigger government. One believes in lower taxes, the other in higher taxes.

This isn't just a practical problem. It is a philosophical problem. Both sides don't just believe they simply have a better way. They think they are RIGHT. And, indeed, one is right and the other wrong (I know some of you fluffy, everybody can be right, there is no absolute truth folks will have a hard time getting your brain around that one).

America was built on Capitalism. We are the greatest example of Capitalism the world has ever seen. And it is our commitment to Capitalism and personal freedom that brought about what people the world over now affectionately call, "The American Dream." If every country in the world opened their borders, the earth would tilt off its axis from people coming to America) It is our commitment to Capitalism that drove almost every major act of progress of the 20th century. It is our dedication to Capitalism, Democracy and Freedom that literally saved hundreds of millions of lives as America stepped up to save the world from tyranny. America was the place people longed to come to be free and to have an unlimited future, as bright as they can dream of and as hard as they will work for. If we continue down the path we are on, they will be able to just go to Europe.

Now we stand at the edge of our destiny. Will we return to our roots of Capitalism, or will we jump headlong into Socialism? This election was as clear a choice as we have ever been given. Obama himself said regularly on the campaign trail that we face a fundamentally different choice. Indeed.

So how did Obama get elected? I believe it lies in three kinds of people who voted for him. Two of them we can't do anything about. One of which we can change if we do it right.

Read the rest ...

Chirp away, loud lefty's. You're too easy to taunt and you know you want to know which type of Obama voter YOU are. I know.

Yes, I know, it's an apostolic website, but it didn't originate there, so get over it.


Nighty night.

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 12, 2012 07:39 PM
204. . "you can't handle the truth that there are people in those 20 states who favor secession"

Indeed, I struggle with the fact that America-lovin' teabaggers like you love this country so damned much that you'd pack up and leave because you're having a hissy-fit."

No one is talking about leaving except you, MORON. Besides being a liberal fascist who is full of shit - you spew more absurdities. Why are you such an anti-conservative bigot ?

You need a serious lobotomy and it sounds like you have the tools to do a self-inflicted one. I encourage you to do it for the good of your country.

Posted by KDS at November 12, 2012 07:40 PM
205. "Besides being a liberal fascist

You stupid twit, just how many times do I have to tell you that I'm not a liberal-fascist?? Would you please, please get it through your thick skull that I'm an avowed commie-fascist? Thanks!

"No one is talking about leaving except you"

Oh, I see. That explains why you posted a secession rant.

Gawd, you're stupid.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 07:51 PM
206. @204 KDS on November 12, 2012 07:40 PM,

Really, no one is talking leaving? What is secession? Who brought it up?

Has there been a power outage?

Posted by MikeBoyScout at November 12, 2012 07:55 PM
207. That's a very strange either/or reality construct you've got going there, Rags. I'm actually glad for your sake that you have a handful of wingnut crazies you can share that world with. I say that because I'd hate for you to be alone with such unfortunate thoughts banging around inside that empty skull of yours.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 07:58 PM
208. Hmm, I can see now that you're going to require a significantly higher voltage if you're gonna be cured of what ails you. I'm thinking 480V, 3 Phase with a current flow of about 100A should do the trick. If not, your family can always stick you in a pot and use you as a Christmas tree for a few weeks until I devise a new treatment plan.
Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 06:40 PM

Why not just a shower house with a truck exhaust piped in?

I'll let you and your ignorance go for now. According to an earlier post, you and MBS need some time alone to play with your little boys.

Posted by SouthernRoots at November 12, 2012 08:12 PM
209. Liberal-fascists are pussies. Real men are commie-fascists. Heh.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 08:15 PM
210. "you and your ignorance"

Projection. It may be a Psych 101 thing but it's still curable. All it requires is the proper application of suitable voltage. Doctor Steve, a world renown Bob-certified physician, can help you with that.

Posted by Doctor Steve at November 12, 2012 08:21 PM
211. Wealth advisors say that with capital-gains taxes potentially going to 25 percent from 15 percent, and other possible increases in the dividend tax, estate tax and other taxes, many clients are selling now to save millions in taxes.

Great, you give us more baseless rumors from un-named sources. If you really do make your investment decisions based on such material, please get out of the markets and stay out. The purveyors of such rumors will stampede you into making decisions which are bad for you in the short term, and bad for everyone in the long term. I want capital markets which are stable, not fluctuating wildly due to the panicky errors of gullible fools. Capital markets need panic-selling fools the way great countries need fair-weather, Summer patriots like yourself. Please perform the one true patriotic act of which you are capable: leave.

However, let's assume, purely for the sake of argument, that this pile of garbage you quoted has some actual connection to some external reality the rest of us can experience someday. Then I'm glad these fools are panic-selling their assets below normal market value. I hope they continue to sell. I'll be there, making my long-term (note: means beyond this year or next) financial decisions by trading my cash for their productive assets. You see, I believe in this great country and our incredibly productive workers, and I'm going to bet on them -- upon all of US -- in the long term. If someday you and your fellow herd-animal investors want to buy those assets back from me, don't worry. I'll practice the small part of your philosophy which is actually practicable: I'll make you pay every last penny the FREE MARKET will allow. You're welcome.

You and your militant-atheist St. Ayn are mere fan-girls of capitalism, who have no real idea of how it actually works.

I have family in Italy,

So, you believe it is a small-government paradise without huge social programs? Really? Because if you move from anywhere in the US to Italy, and call that leaving a place with screwed-up socialist government, then you are either a bigger liar or bigger fool (and we don't have to choose) than you've made yourself appear here, assuming such a feat is possible for a mere mortal.

Get going, Rags. Go Galt. After all, we can't miss you if you don't go away.

Posted by tensor at November 12, 2012 09:29 PM
212. Let us hope that all the gloating and chest-pounding is over now that some 211 posts have addressed the issue and we can get on to other things. I'm looking forward to a post from 'Pudge' as we haven't heard from him yet and he usually presents a unique slant on things.
I've enjoyed these comments (aside from the back-and-forth bickering) and I've learned from them.
:)

Posted by Duffman at November 13, 2012 06:21 AM
213. Don't know who said it, but it's spot on.

"The danger to America is not Barack Obama, but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate... willing to have such a man for their president. The problem is much deeper and far more serious than Mr. Obama, who is a mere symptom of what ails America. Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince. The Republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools, such as those who made him their president."

YOU built that. You own it.

And it is incumbent upon us to LET you.

Demand that the House to do the following.

1) Pass a budget that totally allows the US to go off the Fiscal Cliff. Remind President Obama that he and they made a deal that they intend to honor to the letter as a show of good faith and bipartisan agreement that all Americans should emulate in current and parlous predicament.

2) Refuse a continuing resolution until the US Senate does likewise. Remind them that bipartisanship is always a two-way street and the US Senate does have a professional responsibility with respect to the Federal budget process.

3) When the Senate self-righteously and arrogantly refuses, refuse to raise the debt ceiling, citing the fact that it is irresponsible to issue more debt when you have no coherent statement as to how those funds are intended to be spent.

4) When Barack Obama rails against them, remind him firmly, yet politely that the House has passed a budget and stands more than willing to work with the US Senate anytime they choose to actually fulfill their legal and Constitutional obligations.

The man on the street should do as many already are. Do not hire full-time help unless you absolutely have to. Do not invest in securities that are taxable unless they are far and away the best option for future returns. Obey the law, remain pacifist towards your neighbors, but engage in no action that unnecessarily funds the Federal Government. Make them loot another target to fund the continuing entitlements. They will eventually be unable to afford it and will have to scale back and break promises.

When the promises of a free lunch become constrained, limited and eventually untenable, the simple faith an increasing share of the electorate puts in liberalism will be destroyed by hard reality. Then, we can restructure American Society in a way so that parasitism is discouraged and hard work and sound civic responsibility is by necessity inculcated into the fiber of our next generation. Until then let loose the Pale Rider.

You got what you wanted and we are going to let you enjoy it.

Agreeing with Duffman, (I know! Right?!), it's time to "get on to other things.".

Enjoy the 'getting on'.

Actions : Consequences.

Oh, by the way, speaking of CONSEQUENCES ...

Please stay tuned for more CONSEQUENCES as we will report them with glee equal to the gloating over YOUR actions.

God, politics is FUN!

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 13, 2012 08:43 AM
214. Check out these BEAUTIFUL photographs of our President, Barack Obama.

Inspiring, and heart-warming.

Don't be bitter, come join us!

Posted by Dr. Liberal at November 13, 2012 08:48 AM
215. Gee, Rags, we generously answer all of your witless claims, and you "respond" with a blockquote which urges the lame-duck teabagging f(r)action in our House to resume their mindless belligerence, because it worked so well for them in this election cycle. Brilliant political strategy you stole there. Maybe it was offered for free for a reason?

Meanwhile, stop blockquoting. Sell your stocks at a loss and go Galt, already. Always remember, we cannot miss you if you don't go away.

Posted by tensor at November 13, 2012 08:55 AM
216. Back to the "tea-bagging". How utterly and typically 'classy' from our very own hipsters. Again, I'd rather the reputation as a calm, gracious loser than an foul-mouthed, unhappy, obnoxious winner. YOU built that.

And yet, we all notice you never address the consequences. Are you willfully ignorant or just hoping they aren't true and will go away so you don't have to face the results of your actions? Man up. You're being out-'manned' by a 60 yr old, 105 pound woman, little liberal eunuch.

I prefer the succinct Obama picture with our loud lefty's

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 13, 2012 09:18 AM
217. I sure am bored since our usual contributors are spending all their time at Sound Politics. Hey guys, come back! I miss your shallow, profane dialog! You need not gloat about re-electing our ruling overlords since conservatives just don't understand what's best for them! Besides, hijacking their thread with over 200 posts reveals our lack of jobs or anything better to do.

Posted by the HA moderator at November 13, 2012 09:30 AM
218. Let's See the President's Plan
... I don't care about George W. Bush, William Clinton, their tax rates and what they did to the economy. I don't want to hear rhetoric about top-down or middle-out economic theories, and I don't need to hear the same speeches (literally) that's he's read for the past five years. We all complained about Obama not having a real plan for the past five years, but we never demanded to see a real plan. I want to see the specific plan.

Instead of changing the party's platform, or caving in to liberal tax increases or immigration amnesty, we should say this: Mr. President, if this election was truly a referendum on your policies and promises, then you owe the people of this great nation what they voted for. If raising taxes on the rich combined with spending cuts will create private sector jobs, increase revenue, and reduce the national debt, show us the economic plan with all the details and show us how it will work. It's time to be honest with the people who voted for you and are counting on you.

1. How much do you want to raise taxes and on whom? Income, capital gains, or both?

2. How much additional revenue do you and your experts predict the increased tax rates will raise, and what are your assumptions? For example, are you assuming people will invest the same amount with higher capital gains tax rates?

3. According to your experts, will raising taxes increase or decrease the amount of private capital in the economy? How will this affect the number of private sector jobs? Is the increase/decrease in employment (and the associated tax implications) reflected in #2, above?

4. Assuming you are predicting an increase in tax revenue, how are you going to spend the additional revenue? Your latest jobs plan consists of investing (spending) in many things. Will we have the revenue for both the additional "investing" and reducing the national debt?

5. What are your specific spending cuts?

Of course, he won't answer.
Of course, he CAN'T answer.

OOPSIE...!

CBO: Obama's Plan To Tax The Rich Would Reduce Deficit By Zero Dollars...


Huh. So loud lefty's, if the CBO is correct, who else will have their taxes raised? Oh that's right, down table self-righteous hipsters.

Actions : Consequences.

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 13, 2012 09:31 AM
219. Gag.
I may have to rethink Italy.

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 13, 2012 09:34 AM
220. Check out this site: www.regulations.gov

Images just copied below. These two charts total 11724 new regulations... clicking on anyone of the links (at the site) and browse the actual lists of regulations or any specific regulation.

Regulations With Comments Due Soon
• Today(78)
• Next 3 Days(118)
• Next 7 Days(236)
• Next 15 Days(424)
• Next 30 Days(688)
• Next 90 Days(965)


Newly Posted Regulations
• Today(77)
• Last 3 Days(77)
• Last 7 Days(400)
• Last 15 Days(840)
• Last 30 Days(1,927)
• Last 90 Days(5,894)

"11724 new regulations" ... Mind boggling, no?


6,125 Proposed Regulations and Notifications Posted in Last 90 Days--Average 68 per Day

Hmm. Now, I wonder what the cost of those regulations will be to employers ...
Hmm. Now, I wonder how the employers will PAY for them...

Actions : Consequences

Keep track of them

YOU built that.

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at November 13, 2012 10:15 AM
221. Love will be the single satisfied and thus n acceptable solution regarding mankinds daily life.
[url=http://www.fr-marque.fr/chemise-marque.html/]Chemise Boss[/url]
Chemise Boss

Posted by Chemise Boss at November 13, 2012 05:37 PM
222. "YOU built that."

Yes, we did, and we're darned proud of it. We liberals built the FDA, the National Labor Relations Board, Social Security, the Occupational Health and Safety Administration, and Medicare. We're slowly building national health-care as well. You were wrong about all of those things, and you're wrong now too. Too bad for you. Since you have never built anything comparable, we can understand your petty, bitter, jealous rage at us. (NOTE: in the immortal words of Mr. Spock, "understanding does not imply sympathy.")

Back to the "tea-bagging". How utterly and typically 'classy' from our very own hipsters.

Teabaggers ye are, and teabaggers ye shall remain:

The first big day for this movement was Tax Day, April 15. And organizers had a gimmick. They asked people to send a tea bag to the Oval Office. One of the exhortations was "Tea Bag the Fools in D.C." A protester was spotted with a sign saying, "Tea Bag the Liberal Dems Before They Tea Bag You." So, conservatives started it: started with this terminology.

I'm glad to read that teabagger stupidity bothers you as much as it amuses me. Now that they took it in the teabags last Tuesday, I find it even funnier. (You know all of your many trips in the WAAAAAHmublace won't be covered by Obamacare, right, Rags? Or should we now call you "Tea-Rags"?)

Man up. You're being out-'manned'....

*Snort*. You'd first have to do what you've said you'd do: sell your holdings at a spite-filled loss, and leave us alone already. Remember, we can't ever miss you if you won't go away.


Posted by tensor at November 14, 2012 12:06 AM
223. @222
Yes, indeed....I really to want to see some of these ostentatious Randian 'makers' go Galt, just to see how it's done.

Putting one's money where their mouth is, living out the thin, conditional love for this country that that implies, and pulling up stakes to leave the hordes of 'takers' behind.

Maybe Rags will start a blog and document her 'going Galt' - I'd be a faithful reader!

I'm endlessly fascinated by these attitudes - seems driven by a seething but impotent rage, an overwhelming sense of both superiority and powerlessness, a smug self-satisfaction and gaudy patriotism in eternal conflict with a white-hot loathing of everyone 'other' that happens to share this country.

Must be a sad, lonely way to live. There must be a better way...

Really, conservative comrades, come join us, we have work to do and a country to rebuild!

-We are all in this together.
-Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
-Love your neighbor as yourself.
-From each according to their ability, to each according to their need.

Posted by Dr. Liberal at November 14, 2012 05:47 AM
224. Putting one's money where their mouth is, living out the thin, conditional love for this country that that implies, and pulling up stakes to leave the hordes of 'takers' behind.

Probably just stuck in the line that said they were going to leave when Bush was elected.

* $16+ trillion in debt.
* Four years of $1+ trillion deficits.
* First month of FY2013 spending shows another $1 trillion deficit coming.
* "Fair share" tax increases that only cover one month of the deficit spending.
* US Credit rating downgraded.

Obama & Co. enshrined the "one time" 2009 $800 billion stimulus into all four years of his administration. This is why Reid has violated the law regarding budgets because by not producing a new budget, the last one used (FY2009, signed by Obama, not Bush) would be the baseline for continuing resolutions. Clever of the Democrats, but it also means that they own the debt and deficit.

Did Obama & Co. use $2.4 trillion of taxpayer dollars to buy re-election? Probably.

Posted by SouthernRoots at November 14, 2012 07:00 AM
225. Oh, Southerner...

Aggregate national debt increased by 188% under St. Ronnie Reagan...
increased 55% under the single term of Bush I
and 89% under (he who must not be named) Bush II.

In Clinton's 4 years it increased only 36%.
So far under Obama it has increased 41%, but the rate of increase is slowing.

If you're really concerned about the deficit, why not become a Democrat? Seems Republicans aren't very good at math (see esp. Nov 6).

Posted by Dr. Liberal at November 14, 2012 07:17 AM
226. Dr. Liberal - you're mixing apples and oranges and calling them strawberries.

Bush was not a fiscal conservative and his "compromising" with Democrats led to a historic increase in the national debt.

The national debt when Democrats took over the House and Senate in the 2006 election was $8.5 trillion, a $2.9 trillion increase over 2000.

When Obama signed the FY2009 budget, the debt was over $11.9 trillion ($3.4 trillion increase) and climbing.

From the time Democrats took over to today, the national debt has almost doubled. Their mantra solution of "Make the rich pay their fair share", and "Have the wealthy pay a little more" are bumper sticker slogans and will not actually reduce the deficit, let alone the debt.

Posted by SouthernRoots at November 14, 2012 07:45 AM
227. @226
Dude, noting you wrote contradicted the facts in my post @225. I merely presented FACTS regarding the aggregate debt, correlated to President. You seem intent on picking and choosing starting dates to make a weak political point - unskewing? Is that what you guys call that?

Oh, and "Bush was not a fiscal conservative" is laughable....conservatism can never fail, it can only be failed...the axiom remain inviolate in the wingnut amygdala.

He slashed taxes on the rich. He started two wars, on credit cards. He presided over a systematic violation of privacy rights and branded this country as a torturer. He used the justice system to attack political allies.

How is he not your hero?

Moreover, the deficit you bray about is largely attributable to Bush wars and tax cuts, and the Bush Depression, of course. Deficits and debt that we as a people have largely gotten nothing for, in terms of long-term investment.

What to do now?

Stop digging holes - end wars and the tax cuts on the rich. Moreover - get people back to work - that's the most effective and sanest way to close the deficit - increase the amount of work/wages in the economy. How? Invest. Instead of borrowing trillions to wage a Bush War in Iraq, borrow a trillion or two at ridiculously low interest to build stuff here - wind farms, high-speed rail, schools, universities, teachers, researchers, roads, electrical grid improvement, oceanfront improvements to abate the inevitable rise in sea level, transition to a non-carbon energy regime.

These are investments that will pay massive dividends far into the future...the reason to go into debt is to buy capital investments that will generate wealth....not to pour it into the sands of Iraq, as Bush did, or to line the pockets of the already wealth, again as Bush did.

Of course you and your fellow travelers around here will hate these ideas - putting people to work and building stuff as a nation, together, appears anathema to those of you so quick to wrap yourselves in flags and crosses - weird.

Posted by Dr. Liberal at November 14, 2012 08:06 AM
228. I wear this when walking with my mail-order doctor above.

How can these trolls, let alone a 'doctor', be so inane?

Posted by Dr. Libtard's friend at November 14, 2012 08:38 AM
229. @227 - Your slothful envy of successful people clouds your ability to see the truth.

Your hatred of Bush clouds your ability to see that the primary driver of the financial crisis was the sub-prime mortgage mess that was encouraged by Democrats and not "fixed" by Republicans. Look at the videos of Barney Frank and Maxine Waters. Bush failed to push his point after being rebuked by Congress.

Read the 2002 AUMF and read the list of Democrats that voted for it. Read the Clinton era documents about Iraq and compare the AUMF claims to those made by the Clinton administration. You won't see any difference.

Read the comments by leading Democrats on the use of military force in Afghanistan. They disagreed with Iraq, but were wholeheartedly for action in Afghanistan.

September 11, 2001 happened. It was not an isolated event. It did not just lead to intervention in Afghanistan and Iraq. It also had a dramatic affect on our economy. It shut down the travel industry for a period of time. Do you remember those days when no aircraft were seen or heard? Financial markets were hard hit.

Yet, it's Bush's fault.

Federal revenues in 2001 were $3.89 trillion. They dipped in 2002 and 2003. In 2004 they were above $4 trillion. In 2007 they hit $4.8 trillion, a 25% increase over 2001.

He started two wars, on credit cards.

Aren't these the same credit cards Obama is using to "fund" his "recovery"? Aren't these the same credit cards Obama uses to send hundreds of millions of dollars to companies that go bankrupt? Is your best defense of Obama's record deficits, "Bush did it too?" If Bush's piling up of debt on a credit card was bad, why isn't it bad for Obama to be doing the same?

Democrats helped pass the Patriot Act. Democrats extended the Patriot Act. Democrats helped pass the "Bush Tax Cuts". Democrats, including Obama extended the "Bush Tax cuts".

Or, if you prefer, Democrats hated the Bush agenda so much that they failed to block it.

Will the total repeal of the "Bush Tax Cuts" eliminate the trillion dollar deficits? No. Why? Because the Democrats say they will re-implement the tax cuts for the non-wealthy and only retain the tax increase for the wealthy. This will result in only covering less than 10% of the annual deficit.

Obviously, we need more Americans back to work, but we also need spending reductions, unless we plan to increase taxes (beyond Obamacare) on more Americans. What spending reductions are being offered by the Democrats?

He used the justice system to attack political allies. Huh?

What is Obama's plan to get people back to work? Close coal mines? Close auto dealerships? Close auto parts supply houses? Restrict all carbon based energy sources and plants? Give millions of dollars to companies that produce only a handful of jobs? Add regulatory costs to businesses that reduce the money available to invest in additional employees? Increase taxes so that money goes to the government instead of the next new employee?

What is the investment record so far on wind farms and solar companies like Solyndra? What dividends have been provided by this "investment"?

Higher taxes are not investment capital. They are just taxes. Taxes should be for the support of legitimate functions of government as enumerated in the Constitution.

Of course you and your fellow travelers around here will hate these ideas - putting people to work and building stuff as a nation

Gee, I didn't realize that the United States of America never did this or even had it as a goal until after Obama was elected.

Posted by SouthernRoots at November 14, 2012 09:37 AM
230. How can these trolls, let alone a 'doctor', be so inane?

His doctorate is in bullsh-tting on blogs.

Posted by Leftover at November 14, 2012 10:28 AM
231. These libtards like the one who calls himself a doctor are unhinged and make up their facts like the true asshats they are. Demo Kid, Dorky Dorkman, Joanie will blow it out of their asshats from time to time.

The have a fixation on believing this is "Lord of the Flies" and their stench reeks of hypocrisy !

Posted by KDS at November 14, 2012 10:51 PM
232. This post states: Wonder Why Obama Won? Do the Math.

This one is simple. The majority of American's at this point in time are either intellectually lazy, stupid, or just plain dependent on government programs. When I do the math, all of the three groups previously mentioned are usually those whom can be counted on to vote for the democrat party and therefore, yes, the math makes sense that Obama would be selected (although being an inferior candidate and worse an incompetent president) the right choice for another four years to steer this ship further off course.

Imbeciles the lot!

Posted by Rick D. at November 14, 2012 11:29 PM
233. Don't feel bad Rick D, I felt the same way after George W won his second term. I was mad as hell as pretty certain his re-election would lead to an economic calamity and .... oh wait.... it did.

Posted by Splinter at November 15, 2012 07:57 AM
234. Don't feel bad Rick D, I felt the same way after George W won his second term. I was mad as hell as pretty certain his re-election would lead to an economic calamity and .... oh wait.... it did.

Posted by Splinter at November 15, 2012 07:57 AM
235. Look at Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania all of theses states with more than several serious questions about the integrity of their 2012 Presidential Election voting process. A total in these three states of less than 500 thousand votes and 67 electoral votes. 206 plus 67 gives Romney 270 and the election. It could not be any clearer than that. Will we ever see an election in our time that will give the public confidence that it was valid and not tampered with?

Posted by Jimbo at November 15, 2012 07:58 AM
236. I ll share my exposure to you. the following day: 2 cups of brown bread cereals (a fit cereal) And 1 cup of gloss over milk (they are usually estimates) during the day: joe - no cream or gorgeous - 2-3 plastic bottles of water Lunch: barely any - personally I can't eat during the day for reasons uknown, I get puffed up, gassy, And distressing. the actual fact that I am hungry I avoid food midday. (is irrelevant what it is) But I drink water, this pill made me to. That?? good believe it or not, Drink more water helps discharge toxins in body. And the strong but subtle result is weight finally reduced, 12lbs wearing 32days.I was exciting about what this leads to podedsja.

Posted by lida at November 15, 2012 11:52 AM
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