Comment on Entry: Noncitizens registered to vote in Washington, authored by Ron Hebron
1. Similar happened to my husband, who has a green card, at the DMV. He was renewing his driver's license and the clerk offered to register him to vote. He said no, I'm not a citizen. She said oh, that doesn't matter. He said it does to me. It's illegal. He was truly disgusted.

Posted by katomar at January 26, 2013 09:20 AM
2. This is a pointless, hopeless debate. I have no problems admitting to the fact that these mistakes can happen, and I'd agree with the typical peanut gallery on the right that it is important to ensure the integrity of the ballot. While there is zero evidence of systematic, deliberate voter fraud through mail in ballots, anyone can agree that ensuring that it is important that only citizens can vote.

(And this is evidence of being sloppy, not of some grand conspiracy.)

But what are the right's responses to genuine concerns about voter disenfranchisement? If these types of voter ID laws were impacting a main Republican constituency -- the military, for example -- the right would want overwhelming safeguards put in place to ensure that these citizens could vote. I haven't heard an argument that seriously addresses the concerns expressed by the left.

Likewise, I have yet to hear from Republican governors in red swing states interested in assigning their Electoral College delegates on a proportional basis or comprehensive nonpartisan reforms in state redistricting. It's more productive to p*ss up a rope than to get any traction with these types of voting reforms in states where Republicans have a state-level advantage.

And heck, that's not even getting at genuine problems with the system that entrench two sclerotic parties that have zero interest in pursuing certain issues in a rational manner. If there are two Senators per state, why are they voted in first-past-the-post, and not single transferable vote? Why limit the number of representatives in Congress to 435, or restrict representatives to one per district? Why keep third parties that represent a significant fraction of citizens from being seated in government at all?

Posted by demokid at January 26, 2013 10:35 AM
3. "grand conspiracy"

No doubt. A reader of another blog sez something. Oh, look, there's a document. It has to be real! Time to repeat it as fact on (un)SP and watch the readers hyperventilate.

"NONCITIZENS REGISTERED TO VOTE IN WASHINGTON"

Yup! Fact!

Good grief! You people won't believe a birth certificate when you see one and yet you swallow this tripe hook, line and sinker. How telling.

So what's your excuse, Ron? Are you a fool too, or do you just like to watch as your readers gnaw on the red meat you toss them, knowing full well that it's a bunch of BS?

Posted by Doctor Steve at January 26, 2013 11:57 AM
4. Since the USA is the ultimate protector of Canada, it's citizens have a stake in the success of this country, so why shouldn't they vote. :)
Legalizing gay marriage and mary-jane...isn't it obvious that 'times they are a-changin'.

Posted by Duffman at January 26, 2013 12:36 PM
5. Good grief! You people won't believe a birth certificate when you see one and yet you swallow this tripe hook, line and sinker. How telling.

Posted by Doctor Steve at January 26, 2013 11:57 AM

Certainly not from someone like you, Clown Steve. The only thing telling is how void of critical thinking and gullible you really are. You keep denigrating this website with your offensive and baseless tripe as an intruder from Clownstein's website.

(To others of sane mind) All mail voting has its shortcomings, but it can be an efficient system if verification approach, something like e-verify is used. How serious of a problem is this really ? The example that Ron displayed is one that slipped through the cracks and no idea about the frequency of occurrence.

For instance how does Canada handle situations when non-citizen Americans vote. How about a followup investigation from north of the border, so our methodology can be put into perspective ?
There may be some merit to Duffman's comment.

Posted by KDS at January 26, 2013 01:47 PM
6. Same with my wife, although I suspect she may have accidentally checked some box while applying for her driver's permit. I don't know; I haven't seen the form.

Funny, her green card is orange.

Posted by Matt M. at January 26, 2013 02:06 PM
7. WA state has no interest in the integrity of the vote.

WA Democrats have great interest in maintaining that status quo.

WA low information voters don't know.

WA media doesn't care.

We have all mail voting and far too easy registration, why are we surprised by illegal registrations and fraud?

There isn't really much left to say on this subject.

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at January 26, 2013 03:17 PM
8. Demokid, good to hear from you. My friend since became a US citizen. But when he was Canadian WS Dept of Licensing started to register him to vote. He said I'm not a citizen. They said "So?" Looking for evidence they corrected this problem... Looking...

You want red states to proportionally split their electoral votes? Rick Ungar doesn't. Writing at Forbes he complains "GOP plans to 'steal' elections by converting winner-take-all electoral college states to a proportional representation system..."

Forbes

Ungar claims to be writing from the left.

Posted by Ron at January 26, 2013 03:45 PM
9. 2 important things need to happen here to restore voter integrity/honesty:
1. The Dem/controlled legislature needs to pass a law disallowing illegal aliens to obtain driver's licenses. And 2. The Dem/controlled legislature should overturn their law forcing voters to all-mail balloting and allow voters in counties to return to one-day voting with picture ID. Do we think this will happen? Probably not!

Posted by Susu at January 26, 2013 03:59 PM
10. "The example that Ron displayed"

Is probably as real as the faked photos and tweets of Trayvon Martin that were posted on a right-wing hate site in order to paint Martin as a "thug" who deserved to die.

"The only thing telling is how void of critical thinking and gullible you really are."

A classic case of wingnut projection. It's a Psych 101 thing, in case you didn't know. Presented with an on-line document that purports to support your anxiety-ridden beliefs, you swallow it whole. If something goes against what you believe, you ignore it no matter what the body of evidence might be in support of it.

There is no proof that there's any kind of Democratic Party fraud in this state. None! Quite the opposite, in fact. You've whined for eight years following 2004 and the only thing proven in court was that there were fraudulent votes cast for Rossi. And yet still you whine.

Really, you're all just a bunch of incessant, pathetic whiners. Especially you, KDS.

Posted by Doctor Steve at January 26, 2013 04:04 PM
11. Not all Democrats are unhinged and ensconced in the fictional world and void of critical thinking like Clown Steve is (he is the only one who still is stuck in 2004) - just the radical neo-marxists losers and low information voters - of course.

Yes, the Republicans could offer coherent legislation to tighten up voter registration policy and take their case to the people. However, they need to learn to communicate coherently first. The Republicans here are maybe less inept than the GOP leadership back in DC which drastically needs changing, but I digress.

Has anyone or website calculated what the outcome of last November's election in Electoral votes if they would have been awarded by Congressional District instead of winner take all ? That has always seems like the more fair way, but in 2012 - it would not have changed the result. Also, how would the 2000 Presidential election have turned out ? (maybe a different winner)

Posted by KDS at January 26, 2013 04:59 PM
12. @8: My friend since became a US citizen. But when he was Canadian WS Dept of Licensing started to register him to vote. He said I'm not a citizen. They said "So?" Looking for evidence they corrected this problem... Looking...

But again, there's a difference between the wingnut obsession with voter registration as intentional vote rigging, and simply a sloppy system that needs reasonable reform. Stories in reverse are common as well, when voters are purged from the rolls simply because of clerical errors, or folks that don't drive can't produce photo ID in states where it is required.

You want red states to proportionally split their electoral votes? Rick Ungar doesn't. Writing at Forbes he complains "GOP plans to 'steal' elections by converting winner-take-all electoral college states to a proportional representation system..."

Saying "the other guy does it too" and pointing to the Democrats is a weak defense, especially when you're talking to someone that doesn't really like the Democratic Party. Defending state-enabled gerrymandering makes little sense, and is a symptom of a broken and corrupt system in general.

But to be frank, I think that a system that apportions Electors on the basis of Congressional Districts is actually better than doing it by state... but ONLY if ALL Congressional districts have been divided by nonpartisan panels, and ALL states do it at once. This type of system would reduce the risk that a candidate would win the popular vote and lose the Electoral College.

Posted by demokid at January 26, 2013 05:05 PM
13. It's just a sign of the times. Let anyone inside the United States Vote, make anyone in the United States a Citizen and put them on Obamacare, the tax the Rich to pay for it.

Posted by Ken at January 26, 2013 05:29 PM
14. demokid writes:

But what are the right's responses to genuine concerns about voter disenfranchisement?

And what would be those genuine concerns? As far as I know, the only thing the "right" wants is for citizens to be the only ones casting votes. Is that disenfranchising?

Posted by Shanghai Dan at January 26, 2013 05:51 PM
15. "As far as I know, the only thing the "right" wants is for citizens to be the only ones casting votes."

The right doesn't seem to be worried about foreign corporations pumping money into elections, so you'll have to understand why I doubt your honesty.

Posted by Angelus Novus at January 26, 2013 07:00 PM
16. The right doesn't seem to be worried about foreign corporations pumping money into elections, so you'll have to understand why I doubt your honesty.

Posted by Angelus Novus at January 26, 2013 07:00 PM

Not saying that doesn't occur, but you are conveniently leaving out the left's foreign connection with George Soros and his organizations who has dumped hundreds of millions of dollars - which is on a larger scale more than what occurs on the right and can support that with information. Also in the 2012 election, the major funding sources were 520 groups, like Crossroads USA (Karl Rove) and other groups that received minor contributions from foreign corporations, but not as much as from Soros and his open borders/one world order ilk. You or others can't dismiss this and be objective.

Posted by KDS at January 26, 2013 07:48 PM
17. @12: My son doesn't drive because he's disabled, yet he has a Washington State photo ID card, readily available for $25, and probably could get it for free if really necessary. So what do you mean folks who don't drive have no photo ID?

Posted by katomar at January 26, 2013 08:09 PM
18. @14: And what would be those genuine concerns? As far as I know, the only thing the "right" wants is for citizens to be the only ones casting votes. Is that disenfranchising?

There are genuine concerns because not all voters have government-issued photo ID. If you don't travel internationally, you don't drive, and you're not in the military, you may not necessarily have one. That can penalize poor, young, and urban voters.

Also, conservatives are confusing two distinct things: 1.) voter registration, and 2.) poll identification.

When it comes to identification at the polls, there has been no evidence of systematic fraud from people misrepresenting themselves. It's too little benefit -- one vote -- to risk the penalties. Likewise, providing proof of identity at the polls is not the same as proof of eligibility -- government photo IDs don't really demonstrate both citizenship AND state residency.

For voter registration -- which is what this post is about -- you are typically required to provide information that can confirm your identity (either your state-issued ID number or your Social Security number). Given that you can register by mail or online, there is no requirement to provide ID. However, simply mailing in a form or having a DMV employee put information into a computer isn't enough actually register you.

If folks are getting voter registration cards that shouldn't, that's certainly an issue that should be addressed. There's no denying that. Again, it points to sloppiness, not some grand conspiracy. However, if a Canadian living in the US got a card like Ron showed above, and really wanted to use it to vote, a picture ID would not be guaranteed to stop them from doing so.

Posted by demokid at January 26, 2013 08:12 PM
19. @16: So please elaborate... if George Soros contributes to American election campaigns, that should be illegal because it's from a "foreign source"?

Posted by demokid at January 26, 2013 09:18 PM
20. KDS -- re George Soros: Soros has been a naturalized American citizen since 1961. I know he is one of the right wing's favorite bogeymen, but to compare him to self-serving ratchetheads like the Koch brothers, whose father made the family fortune working for the Soviet Union is ludicrous.

"Between 1979(which comes AFTER 1961) and 2011, Soros gave away over $8 billion to human rights, public health, and education causes. He played a significant role in the peaceful transition from communism to capitalism in Hungary (1984-89)[7]--which he himself proclaimed was being exaggerated and provided Europe's largest higher education endowment to Central European University in Budapest.[9] Soros is also the chairman of the Open Society Institute."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros

To compare a man of such high calibre to a morally corrupt weasel like Karl Rove is preposterous -- and so are you. You are a self-important little twit.

Posted by Angelus Novus at January 26, 2013 09:27 PM
21. demokid @ 18:

If you wish to buy cigarettes, alcohol, cash a check, or get any kind of financial account, you need a Government ID. They are quite easy to get.

I guess you're concern over the integrity of the ballot does not extend to the point of actually taking the absolute minimum step needed to provide any integrity in the system...

Posted by Shanghai Dan at January 26, 2013 09:45 PM
22.
To compare a man of such high calibre to a morally corrupt weasel like Karl Rove is preposterous -- and so are you.

Posted by Angelus Novus at January 26, 2013 09:27 PM

Karl Rove is a scum but Soros is a much worse scum of the earth and you are not objective whatsoever. With all due respect, you are a very small person, Angelus. Soros may be a US Citizen but has his roots in Hungary, you pompous pinhead. Soros is a scumsucker for trying to impose his one world corrupt amoral agenda on this country. You have provided nothing but window dressing from wikipedia. Here is an partial itemized list of the causes he has financially supported -legalization of drugs,pedophilia,gay agenda,totalitarian governments, purposely bankrupting 4 countries.

I am not surprised that weasels like you support this corrupted SOB who supports statist regimes and has some shady associations (as previously mentioned) to break the US financially with the aid of his puppet president so he can financially benefit from it.

Your sanctimonious blather says very little and you are a cancer to civil discourse with high ignorance and are a low information voter.

Posted by KDS at January 26, 2013 09:52 PM
23. The interesting part of what is happening is that while the left "appears" to be "winning," and their policies are being consolidated, this only means that the problems they create are also being consolidated.

The patients have taken over the asylum and the policies being made and enforced will only drive us to a point where their failure will be extremely difficult to fix. The left will suffer far more than conservatives who know how to rely on themselves.

Still, the best thing to do when an enemy is destroying itself is to stand aside and watch it happen. The left "believes" they are winning because the policies that are destroying our economy are created by their clergy. Less production and employment in their minds magically equals a better economy. What an item of faith for those who pretend to be secular.

Personally, I enjoy watching liberals being exploited like children by the class-war bullshi7 celebrate their own demise. They will bite on any "get rich quick for nothing" scheme that comes down the road while pretending they can screw someone else out of their largess. Amusing . . . in a sick sort of Obama-worship kind of way. Because liberals are easy to buy off, I will do very well no matter what.

I do feel badly for those honest conservatives who are caught at the mercy of idiot liberals.

Good things that have lasting value never come from lies.
There is a God and he sees what both liberals and conservatives do.

Posted by Amused by Liberals at January 26, 2013 11:18 PM
24. @21: I guess you're concern over the integrity of the ballot does not extend to the point of actually taking the absolute minimum step needed to provide any integrity in the system...

Absolute minimum step indeed -- it would do next to nothing. If the Canadian that received that voter registration card went to a polling place, they could use their driver's license ("government-issued photo ID") as proof of identity.

My point is that concern about the "integrity of the ballot" is overblown by conservatives looking to reduce turnout amongst certain segments of the population. Little to no fraud has been identified, but there are people that have been required to get ID but have had problems in applying for one. This is especially true amongst groups that would tend to come out for Democrats:

Pennsylvania judge: Voter ID law a no-go for November 6

At a fundraiser in June, [Pennsylvania House Majority Leader Mike] Turzai had touted [the voter ID law] as a key achievement that would help the Romney camp this November, saying: "Voter ID, which is going to allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania - done."

...

Simpson's ruling followed testimony from a dozen people who recalled the hurdles they had to overcome to get IDs, including long waits, multiple trips and misinformation. One of the witnesses, who included a person who walked with a cane and another in a wheelchair who called her experience maddening, saying she nearly gave up after several days' quest for the card.

If Republicans are so keen on the "integrity of the vote", why would they tout a law that would apparently have delivered a state to the Republicans only by preventing legal voters from voting?

Posted by demokid at January 26, 2013 11:29 PM
25. @22: I am not surprised that weasels like you support this corrupted SOB who supports statist regimes and has some shady associations (as previously mentioned) to break the US financially with the aid of his puppet president so he can financially benefit from it.

You know, every once in a while I think that the left demonizes the Koch Brothers, Karl Rove, Sheldon Adelson, Roger Ailes, and Milton Friedman a little too much... but then folks on the right open their mouths about George Soros and the crazy just falls right out.

Posted by demokid at January 26, 2013 11:34 PM
26. So even while evidence is produced that non-citizens are registered to vote, the democrats here flip out and pretend it doesn't matter.

Common sense moment: it DOES matter. It matters all over the place. If democrats think cheating is all that matters, then they don't deserve to be part of the process.

Posted by Princess Leia at January 27, 2013 12:31 AM
27. @26: Common sense moment: it DOES matter. It matters all over the place.

Elections can certainly be run better, and I don't think that anyone said otherwise. The issue is whether this is a widespread, systemic issue, and if the solutions proposed would have a net positive benefit.

Given that actual voter fraud hasn't been proven, should we create a system that would put obstacles to citizens trying to exercise their rights to vote, which would not in fact solve any of the real problems with the system?

Posted by demokid at January 27, 2013 01:31 AM
28. I have more faith in Iraqi elections than in Blue state elections. A few years back a dog was registered to vote just to show what a mockery of a system Blue bureaucrats have created.

Posted by Leftover at January 27, 2013 01:54 AM
29. Besides, 'voting' is getting to be simply an appeasement of the masses and within the framework of politics and power has less and less of an impact. It's the $money that decides things folks. :)

Posted by Duffman at January 27, 2013 06:29 AM
30. demokid @ 24:

My point is that concern about the "integrity of the ballot" is overblown by conservatives looking to reduce turnout amongst certain segments of the population.

My point is that concern about "those concerned about the integrity of the ballot" is overblown by liberals looking to increase turnout amongst certain segments of the population...

Violation of basic rights - your right to a fair and accurate vote - really don't matter to you, as long as "your side" wins, it seems.

Posted by Shanghai Dan at January 27, 2013 06:31 AM
31. Dear Amused: "...and their policies are being consolidated, this only means that the problems they create are also being consolidated."

Sure...go ahead and blame it all on liberals and Obama's first administration. Those four years are over. Why dwell on the past?

It's no more meaningful or relevant than when the liberals blame 8 years of George Bush and the prior 20 of 'trickle down' for the economic collapse that happened toward the end of Bush II's administration.

Posted by Angelus Novus at January 27, 2013 07:39 AM
32. Dear Shanghai: "Violation of basic rights - your right to a fair and accurate vote - really don't matter to you, as long as "your side" wins, it seems."

People who base policy upon principle rather than upon their best projection of the effects of their policy are not only intellectually lazy, but stupid.

I accuse you of neither.

Rather, I accuse you of dishonesty in that you are well aware that Republicans are in the minority and you seek to circumventdemocracy by this unnecessary and unrelenting focus on voter picture identification, which has the actual result of suppressing honest voters who most likely will vote against you.

Don't try to hide behind principles that you do not possess. KDS and his kind have enough principled stupidity to last you all.

Posted by Angelus Novus at January 27, 2013 07:51 AM
33. @32: Violation of basic rights - your right to a fair and accurate vote - really don't matter to you, as long as "your side" wins, it seems.

Now you're just a liar.

Come up with substantive proof that the system is biased -- more than just fear that voters you don't like are voting -- and that an ID law that proves identity not eligibility will help. Until then, you haven't shown that the policy is worth the cost.

Posted by demokid at January 27, 2013 07:54 AM
34. A simple solution: For every $1 in federal income taxes you pay you will get one vote. That way if an illegal immigrant pays income taxes he or she gets to vote on those who determine how it is spent or if he/she has to pay more.

As for Demokid's wanting to have porportional electoral college results - since this is Washington State I would be all for you putting that in an initiative form and letting me vote on it, I very well might support it, but as for forcing other states to do it by decree - no, that is not how it works.

Posted by doug at January 27, 2013 08:07 AM
35. @36: A simple solution: For every $1 in federal income taxes you pay you will get one vote.

All men are created equal... but if you're rich you're more equal than others. Brilliant encapsulation of the Republican frame of mind. Unfortunately, poll taxes are unconstitutional.

I very well might support it, but as for forcing other states to do it by decree - no, that is not how it works.

An amendment to the Constitution could "do it by decree". However, barring that, switching when other states are keeping a winner-take-all system simply smacks of political opportunism, not a concern about equal representation. If North Carolina were to do it at the same time, then we might talk.

Posted by demokid at January 27, 2013 08:19 AM
36. It's funny that some here cry for proof and when the Washington Secretary of State asks the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT for Access to the Immigration database to cross reference Washington State voter Registrations with the Immigration Database to remove errors such as this...they are denied.

"Come up with substantive proof that the system is biased." You will never find what you are not allowed to look for and verify. Is the proof enough?

Posted by Smokie at January 27, 2013 08:21 AM
37. Here is the citation for those who doubt the facts.

http://www.sos.wa.gov/office/osos_news.aspx?i=BK80EPb8m8EoaiZzeLxzUQ%3d%3d

Posted by Smokie at January 27, 2013 08:24 AM
38. @38: Is the proof enough?

Hmmmm... no.

In the state of Florida, where they were aggressively looking to purge ineligible voters with SAVE data, the suggested rate of voter fraud they found was on the order of 0.0003% of total registered voters. Even on that list of 36 people (out of about 14 million), there were a number of false positives where naturalized and natural-born citizens were listed.

Spending thousands of dollars to try to track down about 10-15 people in Washington State that may or may not have committed voter fraud, while removing folks from the rolls that are in fact be legal voters, seems like a remarkable cost for negligible improvement. Better to concentrate on improving other aspects of the election system that would make more of a difference.

Posted by demokid at January 27, 2013 09:58 AM
39. "Rather, I accuse you of dishonesty in that you are well aware that Republicans are in the minority and you seek to circumventdemocracy by this unnecessary and unrelenting focus on voter picture identification, which has the actual result of suppressing honest voters who most likely will vote against you."

That is a phony argument. You don't care about honesty and are afraid of Voter picture ID required because it would lessen votes for Democrats, but it would also lessen votes for Republicans. I saw let the chips fall where they may and create a system that has integrity, where it is not a financial hardship to obtain a voter ID too - there is an equitable way to do this and if the left rejects that premise, it is not because of suppression - that is nothing more than a smoke screen and is code for we want a banana republic and you on the right aren't going to stop us.

I accuse you of demagoguery, throwing out strawman and putting words in other's mouth and taking them out of context. You are the epitome of a useful idiot. BTW, this country is not a democracy. It is a Democratic Republic and there is a significant difference.

"Don't try to hide behind principles that you do not possess."

Posted by Angelus Novus at January 27, 2013 07:51 AM

You don't have a leg to stand on, as you Angelus as you have demonstrated that you have no principles.

Posted by KDS at January 27, 2013 10:50 AM
40. Should read; "I say let the chips fall where they may and create a system that has integrity, where it is not a financial hardship to obtain a voter ID too..."

Posted by KDS at January 27, 2013 10:58 AM
41. What I was saying is that it is what it is and George Soros should be held under closer scrutiny than he already is. You should know that he is a communist and nazi sympathizer - demonstrated by his actions and his financial manipulation brought down the financial system of four nations - his most sinister attributes. This describes the effect on the 2012 election;




He donated millions through his front groups like Open Borders, The Tides Foundation and others


Posted by KDS at January 27, 2013 11:14 AM
42. Makes me think of the 2004 election here in WA.

Posted by Politically Incorrect at January 27, 2013 11:21 AM
43. "You should know that he is a communist and nazi sympathizer"

Hey, are you trying to imply that Soros isn't a real commie-fascist?

"You don't care about honesty and are afraid of Voter picture ID"

And that's because, unlike Soros, we're true commie-fascists?

The fearless KDS will soon be spewing the virtues of in utero chip implants. Eh, probably not a bad idea for the likes of KDS, not so much for the rest of us.

"I saw let the chips fall where they may and create a system that has integrity"

Hmm, chips on the mind already. ID card are so 20th Century. I'm sure you'll get with the program and eventually reach the conclusion that there's nothing with more integrity than in utero chip implants. It'd be the least expensive form of ID as it would eliminate all other forms of ID, from a child's library card to corporate and government access control, security and surveillance systems. You might even be able to program it to blow up when commie-fascist activity is detected. Heck, go all out. You could even incorporate Jim Miller's idea of a Bed-Bug-Detecto-Meter.

Posted by Doctor Steve at January 27, 2013 12:22 PM
44. My point is that concern about "those concerned about the integrity of the ballot" is overblown by liberals looking to increase turnout amongst certain segments of the population...

I'm going to do you the great, and perhaps unwarranted, favor of assuming you simply don't know anything about American election laws and court rulings. (Being as you are happy about living in a literal one-Party dictatorship, I can understand how such laws and precedents might not be a large issue of concern for you.)

Voting is a right, not a privilege. Therefore, any legal processes which may tend to impinge upon that right are subject to suspicion. No one has here provided ay evidence of fraud at all, or any evidence that non-citizens ever vote in any other than miniscule numbers, and there is absolutely no evidence to support your innuendo that "liberals" are doing something nefarious in trying to "increase turnout" amongst persons ineligible to vote. (If your complaint is that we liberals are successful in increasing voter turnout amongst persons who are eligible to vote, then I revel in your bitter, whiny sore-loser-ism.)

BTW, when it comes to having our legitimate votes diluted by counting ineligible votes, this site specifically lacks credibility because the posters and favorable commenters it had eight years ago all refused to condemn the felons who voted for Rossi in districts where we legitimate voters went for Gregoire. (In fact, after months of piously telling us votes had to be subtracted from Gov. Gregoire's totals because "felons favor liberals", most of the folks here refused even to admit felons had voted for Rossi.)

Posted by tensor at January 27, 2013 12:27 PM
45. You are merely throwing crap against the wall to see if it sticks and who will buy it without proof. Dealing with hypotheticals, strawmen and shuck and jive - good job to aid your echo chamber. The 2004 election is long gone - the judge said Gregoire won. The people got who they deserved. You are dredging it up merely for sanctimonious feel good purposes.

To quote what Sec. of State Clinton said - "What does it matter now ? The main task of the Secretary of State is to prevent something like that from ever happening again".

Posted by KDS at January 27, 2013 12:35 PM
46. Pennsylvania judge: Voter ID law a no-go for November 6Posted by demokid at January 26, 2013 11:29 PM

1: Supreme Court upholds voter ID law

2: In the landmark Indiana test case, Crawford v. Marion County Election Board, challengers of photo voter ID claimed photo ID is too burdensome. Opponents of photo voter ID lost all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court, which ruled 6-3 that states can require photo ID for voting, as long as photo IDs are made available free of charge.

3: S.C. voter ID upheld, with safeguards

The problems with this issue for liberals are ... liberals.

You need a photo ID to get into an Eric Holder event, or even to get into his office building, you need a photo ID for union votes, you needed a photo ID to get into the loud lefty convention, you need a photo ID to attend a NAACP event ... shall we go on?

In coherent terms loud lefties, (I know, it's asking a lot) please explain why those are necessary for ID and deciding the fate of a nation, a state, a city and/or a county are not.

We know. And we know you won't dare answer.


Those four years are over. Why dwell on the past?

OMG - Hello, hypocrite, do you remember BLAME BUSH for the past 4 years + the 2 years of the Obama campaign prior?

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at January 27, 2013 01:10 PM
47. So Demokid is ok with the Federal Government withholding public records in an immigration Database from a Secretary of State so they can verify the voter rolls in their State...Gottcha, it's all really clear now. It's proof enough for thinking people, just not partisans.

Posted by Smokie at January 27, 2013 01:18 PM
48. Voting integrity matters. It always matters. Even in spite of liberals trying to spin that it doesn't matter. That's why they get accused of confusion when it comes to morality; they are so busy tying themselves up in pretzels trying to explain why people trying to have clean elections and voter rolls are EEEEVIIILLLLL. It makes no sense whatsoever. Common sense is common sense; and when you have taxpayer-funded bureaucrats trying to register non-citizens and saying things like "it doesn't matter if you register as a non-citizen", then we have a MAJOR problem. Don't listen to the leftists. They have a moral clarity problem and need to straighten that out first. Then maybe they'll have something valuable to say on the subject.

Posted by Princess Leia at January 27, 2013 02:16 PM
49. @43: What I was saying is that it is what it is and George Soros should be held under closer scrutiny than he already is. You should know that he is a communist and nazi sympathizer - demonstrated by his actions and his financial manipulation brought down the financial system of four nations - his most sinister attributes.

That's not "closer scrutiny", that's slander. There's zero evidence of any of that. In fact, for many conservatives, the only thing he's really guilty of is devoting funds to trying to defeat George Bush in 2004.

The idea that one could be a "communist" and a "nazi sympathizer" at the same time is also pretty amusing from a historical perspective.

@49: We know. And we know you won't dare answer.

No, now you're either stupid or willfully ignorant. I've outlined the reasons why: a.) tight ID restrictions for polling don't prove eligibility, just identity, and b.) the problems with voter fraud are overblown by conservatives.

@50: So Demokid is ok with the Federal Government withholding public records in an immigration Database from a Secretary of State so they can verify the voter rolls in their State

Public records that: a.) were never designed to evaluate voter eligibility, and b.) when used, find very few ineligible voters.

Posted by demokid at January 27, 2013 02:20 PM
50. That's why they get accused of confusion when it comes to morality; they are so busy tying themselves up in pretzels trying to explain why people trying to have clean elections and voter rolls are EEEEVIIILLLLL.

Again, no one here cared about felons actually voting for Rossi, even though they demanded votes be subtracted from Gregoire's total on the suspicion felons had voted for her. There's no evidence anyone here wanted "clean elections," they want restrictions on the right to vote for anyone living in liberal areas like Seattle.

Posted by tensor at January 27, 2013 03:06 PM
51. "That's not "closer scrutiny", that's slander. There's zero evidence of any of that.

False. only because the government has not asked for an investigation - which would confirm or deny these type of allegations. There's only zero evidence to you and the rank and file lib progs. We have the best government money can buy and as long as Obama is President there will be NO investigation on Soros. Evidently, you only read NY Times and mainstream left wing accounts. The moderate and conservatives have a different spin than you are trying to put on this.

In fact, for many conservatives, the only thing he's really guilty of is devoting funds to trying to defeat George Bush in 2004."

Actually, Soros saw the handwriting on the wall and did not contribute as much as he could have because he realized it would not change that result. I did not vote for Bush in 2004, but did not vote for Kerry either.

"The idea that one could be a "communist" and a "nazi sympathizer" at the same time is also pretty amusing from a historical perspective."

Soros was a Nazi sympathizer during WWII and he favors a one world order which is a totalitarian government structure and he is both, as both are totalitarian regimes, even though there are different political philosophies - they are both control freaks, when it gets right down to it.;

Posted by KDS at January 27, 2013 04:41 PM
52. From Wikipedia:

George Soros (... born August 12, 1930, as Schwartz Gy├Ârgy) is a Hungarian-American business magnate, investor, and philanthropist.

He was ten years old when the Nazis came to power, and less than fifteen years old when Germany surrendered to the Allies. So, even if he was a Nazi sympathizer -- an accusation for which you apparently feel absolutely no need to support with any evidentiary citations of any kind whatsoever -- he was a boy at the time.

If you want to get after anyone here for following a former member of the Hitler Youth, talk to Rags, not to us liberals.

Posted by tensor at January 27, 2013 04:56 PM
53. @54: False. only because the government has not asked for an investigation - which would confirm or deny these type of allegations.

For a liberal boogeyman, he's surprisingly light on things to actually investigate. Where is any proof whatsoever that he did anything illegal with investments, aside from the charge of insider trading in France?

Likewise, Nazism and communism are both "totalitarian"? Weak. Fascism and communism have been mortal enemies throughout most of their existence. Charging someone with both is just name-calling.

Note that when the Nazis occupied Hungary when he was a teenager, he hid with a Christian friend of the family. After he made his way to the States and made his fortune, he funded pro-democracy movements in eastern European countries. I'm fascinated as to how that got turned into being pro-Nazi and pro-communist, especially since he probably has more of a reason to hate them both than you do.

Actually, Soros saw the handwriting on the wall and did not contribute as much as he could have because he realized it would not change that result.

Irrelevant. He made a public statement that he wanted to see Bush defeated, and Republicans took grave offense to that.

Regardless, getting back to the matter at hand, there is zero connection between the billionaire that makes conservatives wet themselves, and "alleged" voter fraud. Any connection you're trying to make is a laughable stretch.

Posted by demokid at January 27, 2013 05:27 PM
54. I am removing junk entries, so the numbering will change. By junk I mean those that have a link to a commercial web site and no content. Removed four so far.

Posted by Ron at January 27, 2013 06:20 PM
55. Voting fraud as opposed to voter-registration fraud "never happens," except when someone does vote on more than one of his nine voter registrations and is convicted and sentenced to six months. In Cleveland, Ohio in 2009.

Economic Freedom

(Sorry the entry is poorly formatted; it survived a Blogger required rehosting that clobbered the formatting.)

Posted by Ron at January 27, 2013 06:35 PM
56. "Likewise, Nazism and communism are both "totalitarian"? Weak. Fascism and communism have been mortal enemies throughout most of their existence."

Weak, ignorant and likely intellectually dishonest. Stalin and Hitler were both evil totalitarians and adversaries - that part true, but Soros has no principles and wants to be all things to all people and he also wants to partner with Islamists, BTW, so that deflates the argument. He is out for the payoff.

Of course you and the loud lefties defend Soros because he is the Democrat party's best donor and that's all that matters to your ilk. Interesting how you dismiss their similarities of big government, as you think everyone wants big government - which invariably leads to more corruption. Soros is one of the lead causes of corruption of big government in the parallel universe in Washington DC aka Boom town. Based on your rhetoric here, it seems that you are apathetic about the corruption in DC as long as it is perceived to benefit the Democrats. I did not like it when it seemed to benefit the Republicans simply because corruption does a disservice to the governed.

"Actually, Soros saw the handwriting on the wall and did not contribute as much as he could have because he realized it would not change that result.

Irrelevant. He made a public statement that he wanted to see Bush defeated, and Republicans took grave offense to that."

It was relevant if you look at the big picture, which you didn't. Sure, Soros wanted to see Bush defeated - no kidding, Sherlock, and the Republicans may have taken offense to that - so what !!! What did they do ? Take offense - big freakin' deal...

Posted by KDS at January 27, 2013 07:23 PM
57. "Soros was a Nazi sympathizer during WWII and he favors a one world order which is a totalitarian government structure and he is both, as both are totalitarian regimes, even though there are different political philosophies - they are both control freaks, when it gets right down to it"

One world order. Commie-fascism. Soros. Geez, KDS, unhinged much?

Posted by Doctor Steve at January 27, 2013 08:02 PM
58. @55: Voting fraud as opposed to voter-registration fraud "never happens," except when someone does vote on more than one of his nine voter registrations and is convicted and sentenced to six months. In Cleveland, Ohio in 2009.

I never said that voting fraud didn't exist, just that it rarely happens and it isn't systematic. One person in Ohio doesn't make the case that it is a scourge that requires a disproportionate response, nor that ACORN was intentionally working to get an additional eight votes illegally.

Posted by demokid at January 27, 2013 08:09 PM
59. @56: Weak, ignorant and likely intellectually dishonest. Stalin and Hitler were both evil totalitarians and adversaries - that part true, but Soros has no principles and wants to be all things to all people and he also wants to partner with Islamists, BTW, so that deflates the argument. He is out for the payoff.

Now you're really muddling the issue. Is he a fascist? Communist? Islamist? Capitalist looking for a payoff? I don't think you really know. You're just mixing it all together and coming out with nonsense.

Of course you and the loud lefties defend Soros because he is the Democrat party's best donor and that's all that matters to your ilk. Interesting how you dismiss their similarities of big government, as you think everyone wants big government - which invariably leads to more corruption.

No, I'm pointing out that you don't make sense. You could talk about puppies and I could still do that. Quite frankly, I don't really think about Soros very much.

Soros is one of the lead causes of corruption of big government in the parallel universe in Washington DC aka Boom town. Based on your rhetoric here, it seems that you are apathetic about the corruption in DC as long as it is perceived to benefit the Democrats. I did not like it when it seemed to benefit the Republicans simply because corruption does a disservice to the governed.

Since when is a rational discussion of voting fraud condoning corruption? Or funding poverty relief in Africa and democracy initiatives in Europe? Again, the only crime that he seems to be committing here is that you don't like that he supports the Democrats.

It was relevant if you look at the big picture, which you didn't. Sure, Soros wanted to see Bush defeated - no kidding, Sherlock, and the Republicans may have taken offense to that - so what !!! What did they do ? Take offense - big freakin' deal...

Take offense, and start devising cockamamie conspiracy theories that don't really make a whole lot of sense.

Posted by demokid at January 27, 2013 08:10 PM
60. "if you look at the big picture, which you didn't"

The Big Picture as perceived by KDS: Nazis. Commies. Commie-fascists. Soros. A new world order. Martians.

Perhaps Demokid doesn't have a tin-foil hat, KDS. Did you ever consider that?? Not everybody has one, you know?

Posted by Doctor Steve at January 27, 2013 08:12 PM
61. To commenters @57 - @60 who are utterly clueless about the big picture; Enough of your lovefest with George Soros - time to move on. Here's the more serious problem that exists DC (District of Corruption)




Both major political parties are to blame for this and the outsiders - yes you too are getting screwed because of it. Sorry, loud lefties, this is not a conspiracy theory and if you believe it is - time to put on your tinfoil hat(s)



Posted by KDS at January 27, 2013 08:50 PM
62. Here's the link that will allow you to see this report on the state of corruption in DC-

http://xfinity.comcast.net/video/welcometoboomtownwashingtondc/16023107972/fanLocalDC/newest/

Posted by KDS at January 27, 2013 09:13 PM
63. @61-62: tl;dr

You've careened from voter fraud to calling George Soros an everything-but-the-kitchen-sink-ist, to pointing towards some Breitbart / Fox News "report" that whines about Washington DC.

So... what's the point? You're not talking about Ron's post anymore, you're just throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what will stick.

Posted by demokid at January 27, 2013 11:00 PM
64. Demo Knuckle Head thanks for being an Enabler.

Washington Department of Licensing frequently does this and this has been reported in Seattle since 2004 even when the applicant tells the State Employee behind the counter they are Not US Citizen.

If you want to do something of value, go tease KCGOP about their website

Posted by Gus at January 28, 2013 05:38 AM
65. Demo Knuckle Head thanks for being an Enabler.

Washington Department of Licensing frequently does this and this has been reported in Seattle since 2004 even when the applicant tells the State Employee behind the counter they are Not US Citizen.

If you want to do something of value, go tease KCGOP about their website

Posted by Gus at January 28, 2013 05:39 AM
66. Demo Knuckle Head thanks for being an Enabler.

Washington Department of Licensing frequently does this and this has been reported in Seattle since 2004 even when the applicant tells the State Employee behind the counter they are Not US Citizen.

If you want to do something of value, go tease KCGOP about their website

Posted by Gus at January 28, 2013 05:39 AM
67. Demo Knuckle Head thanks for being an Enabler.

Washington Department of Licensing frequently does this and this has been reported in Seattle since 2004 even when the applicant tells the State Employee behind the counter they are Not US Citizen.

If you want to do something of value, go tease KCGOP about their website

Posted by Gus at January 28, 2013 05:39 AM
68. Demo Knuckle Head thanks for being an Enabler.

Washington Department of Licensing frequently does this and this has been reported in Seattle since 2004 even when the applicant tells the State Employee behind the counter they are Not US Citizen.

If you want to do something of value, go tease KCGOP about their website

Posted by Gus at January 28, 2013 05:39 AM
69. Demo Knuckle Head thanks for being an Enabler.

Washington Department of Licensing frequently does this and this has been reported in Seattle since 2004 even when the applicant tells the State Employee behind the counter they are Not US Citizen.

If you want to do something of value, go tease KCGOP about their website

Posted by Gus at January 28, 2013 05:40 AM
70. Demo Knuckle Head thanks for being an Enabler.

Washington Department of Licensing frequently does this and this has been reported in Seattle since 2004 even when the applicant tells the State Employee behind the counter they are Not US Citizen.

If you want to do something of value, go tease KCGOP about their website

Posted by Gus at January 28, 2013 05:40 AM
71. I never said that voting fraud didn't exist, just that it rarely happens and it isn't systematic. One person in Ohio doesn't make the case that it is a scourge that requires a disproportionate response, Posted by demokid at January 27, 2013 08:09 PM

Let's use use that analogy, shall we ... with your bank ... or your doctor ... or perhaps Boeing and their lithium battery fireworks or babies and ridiculous crib requirements... GUN VIOLENCE.


Why should I have to buy a new crib just because one kid got his head stuck?

Selective outrage by loud controlling lefties when it suits their agenda.

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at January 28, 2013 06:48 AM
72. re 74 -- 78: Related to the English royal family?

Posted by red hiney monkey at January 28, 2013 06:52 AM
73. "WTO upholds ruling that Boeing received illegal US subsidies"


http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/1005-trade/215439-us-eu-both-claim-victory-after-wto-says-boeing-got-subsidies

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>:D

Posted by red hiney monkey at January 28, 2013 07:03 AM
74. One person in Ohio doesn't make the case that it is a scourge that requires a disproportionate response, Posted by demokid at January 27, 2013 08:09 PM

Better yet, let's use FOOTBALL

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at January 28, 2013 07:27 AM
75. @72: Let's use use that analogy, shall we ... with your bank ... or your doctor ... or perhaps Boeing and their lithium battery fireworks or babies and ridiculous crib requirements... GUN VIOLENCE.

Of course. Is it reasonable to spend $3 billion to save maybe 30 lives lost to gun violence? Or is it more reasonable to use that money to save ten, a hundred, or even a thousand more lives in other ways?

Why should I have to buy a new crib just because one kid got his head stuck?

Because the liability faced by a company and/or impacts to consumers are higher than the costs for a recall and redesign of the product.

Considering that conservatives claim to be motivated more by the free market and neoliberal economics, I'm amused that you don't get the basic concept of a cost-benefit analysis.

Posted by demokid at January 28, 2013 09:01 AM
76. @75: Better yet, let's use FOOTBALL

Better yet, let's use Giorgio Tsoukalos. Makes about as much sense as anything else you're saying.

Posted by demokid at January 28, 2013 09:07 AM
77. So... what's the point? You're not talking about Ron's post anymore, you're just throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what will stick.

Posted by demokid at January 27, 2013 11:00 PM

Can't think of anything original. Guess what ! I just took part of a page out of your and your comrades' playbook - obfuscate, change the subject, but arrived at a point that bears discussion in future posts. The point is that your previous posts reflected apathy and cluelessness when it came to discussing corruption and vetting George Soros - called Dr. Evil by some, who has enabled many in DC and led to a bigger problem as shown in @61-62. I dislike seeing my country go down the toilet as it is now.

I already stated my views on Noncitizens registered to vote in WA and am for the implementation of voter photo ID.

Posted by KDS at January 28, 2013 09:21 AM
78. because the liability faced by a company and/or impacts to consumers are higher than the costs for a recall and redesign of the product.

So is the LIABILITY to our COUNTRY with voter fraud and low information voters.

Thanks for proving my point.

You loud lefties want to pick and choose what to enforce based on your whim and agenda. WE want uniformity based on common sense and what's best for our nation.


Posted by RagnarDanneskold at January 28, 2013 10:03 AM
79. My son was mailed two mail in voter forms, one at my house and one at his....no doubt this is happening thousands of times in Wa till the commie's get the votes they want.

Posted by Sulaco at January 28, 2013 10:16 AM
80. @78: Can't think of anything original.

Agreed.

The point is that your previous posts reflected apathy and cluelessness when it came to discussing corruption and vetting George Soros - called Dr. Evil by some, who has enabled many in DC and led to a bigger problem as shown in @61-62.

You haven't shown that he caused those problems, nor that he is corrupt. Seems like you're the one that's apathetic and clueless if you can't even make those points.

I dislike seeing my country go down the toilet as it is now.

If you think that corruption is worse than it was before, I think that you've proven again that you're not a student of history.

Posted by demokid at January 28, 2013 12:00 PM
81. @79. So is the LIABILITY to our COUNTRY with voter fraud and low information voters.

So you would spend hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars -- if not more -- to track down 10 people that voted when they shouldn't have? Or require stringent ID requirements that would likely prevent more legal voters than illegal voters from voting?

In every case where conservatives are asked whether there is a real problem of voter fraud, they point to isolated cases. One-off situations and anecdotal evidence aren't proof that the system needs to be changed. Working yourself up into a lather because of imagined voter fraud doesn't tackle any of the real problems with the election system in this country.

Thanks for proving my point.

If you're point is to make yourself look foolish, then you're welcome.

You loud lefties want to pick and choose what to enforce based on your whim and agenda. WE want uniformity based on common sense and what's best for our nation.

No, while you like to claim that, you're just as much into selective enforcement as you claim the "loud lefties" to be.

Posted by demokid at January 28, 2013 12:09 PM
82. While I don't agree with the Voter ID laws and other hyperbole, I do think the case Ron posted about is different. It contains two new and different topics than the standard GOP Voter hyperbole. One, brought up by commentors, is whether DMV staff is following the rules when registering people at same time as renewing drivers license. This can be corrected by state officials through a directive. I am pretty sure this is an implementation of law issue and not a problem with the existing state law.

The other issue, is also an implementation and not a law issue, but deals with integrity of the data system. No matter if a DMV (or other county official) makes a mistake, the Data System should catch that the person in question is not a U.S. Citizen (cross check with immigration). This sounds like a programming error in the state voter registration computer system.

Posted by tc at January 28, 2013 12:29 PM
83. @83: While I don't agree with the Voter ID laws and other hyperbole, I do think the case Ron posted about is different.

Absolutely. If there needs to be a change in process, it should be made. The problem is when a sloppy system is confused with a grand conspiracy involving George Soros.

Posted by demokid at January 28, 2013 12:47 PM
84. "You haven't shown that he caused those problems, nor that he is corrupt. Seems like you're the one that's apathetic and clueless if you can't even make those points."

Name calling for the sake of name calling without substance. Yes, I have shown Soros is scum, but you are disingenuous and choose to ignore them because he benefits the Democrat party. You are apathetic and clueless because you are not curious enough to see the other side and I am not talking about Republicans - I am referring to what he done to our country's financial well-being. It is obvious that you are unable to admit a number of leftists are scum because you are ideologically wedded to their politics.
I will give your side the benefit of doubt and agree about Karl Rove being a scum and Bush-43 a poor president.

"I dislike seeing my country go down the toilet as it is now."

"If you think that corruption is worse than it was before, I think that you've proven again that you're not a student of history."

Why are you making excuses based on history for the corruption now ? Of course there was corruption during prohibition (note that this also originated from Chicago). Who gives a flying f**k about then ? What do we do about it now. If you had view @61 & 62, you would see how things are corrupt but on a larger scale in the center of our Federal Government. Do you care about that aspect ? If not, I seriously question your ability to connect the dots. In addition, you just proved my point about how clueless (willfully) you and your comrades really are. (This is not George Soros's fault, it is the fault of our political class !)

Posted by KDS at January 28, 2013 03:05 PM
85. So you would spend hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars -- if not more -- to track down 10 people that voted when they shouldn't have? Or require stringent ID requirements that would likely prevent more legal voters than illegal voters from voting?

Thanks for your false conclusion, aka your straw dog. Learn that technique from Obama, did you?

No, I would spend hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars to purge the voter rolls, re-register Americans WITH valid photo ID to make sure it doesn't happen again and implement uniformity AT THE POLLS (eliminating mail ballots to all but the military, Americans living/working abroad. As far as travelers, my husband IS one: he would be glad to vote early in person with ID at a central place if he's gone on election day) for the integrity of our electoral system and my COUNTRY.

What the hell does it say about us when Iraq has better voter integrity than America?

Thanks loud lefties. I WISH we could have purple fingers on election day. Hells bells, I'd be glad for an "I voted once...LEGALLY" sticker.

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at January 28, 2013 04:07 PM
86. This last election we were treated to the story of caretakers 'helping' their mentally handicapped charges, who could neither read nor write, nor tell you who Obama is, vote. That is corruption.

And evil.

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at January 28, 2013 04:17 PM
87. @85: Name calling for the sake of name calling without substance.

Pot, meet kettle.

Yes, I have shown Soros is scum, but you are disingenuous and choose to ignore them because he benefits the Democrat party.

No, no, yes, and no.

If not, I seriously question your ability to connect the dots. In addition, you just proved my point about how clueless (willfully) you and your comrades really are.

You're not even connecting the dots yourself. You're letting someone else do it for you. You can't even tell the difference between communists and Nazis. "Low information", indeed.

@86: Thanks for your false conclusion, aka your straw dog. Learn that technique from Obama, did you?

What straw dog? You haven't responded to a reasonable question. Must mean that you can't.

No, I would spend hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars to purge the voter rolls, re-register Americans WITH valid photo ID to make sure it doesn't happen again and implement uniformity AT THE POLLS (eliminating mail ballots to all but the military, Americans living/working abroad.

And again, "valid photo ID" doesn't prove that you're eligible to vote, and making sure that "it doesn't happen again" when it actually barely has happened is pretty absurd. Again, please feel free to put more public money into making the voting system better, but whining about things that actually have very little impact on the results is not the way to do it.

@87: This last election we were treated to the story of caretakers 'helping' their mentally handicapped charges, who could neither read nor write, nor tell you who Obama is, vote. That is corruption.

"Corruption" that you're proving through anecdotal evidence, not actual figures. Without that, you have no evidence that this would be only done by Democrats. And I'll be more than amused to hear how you plan to cut off the rights of the disabled to vote.

Posted by demokid at January 28, 2013 06:36 PM
88. "You're not even connecting the dots yourself. You're letting someone else do it for you. You can't even tell the difference between communists and Nazis. "Low information", indeed."

False argument. You are being silly... I stated earlier that the two factions have different political philosophies. However, they both favor totalitarian governments.

"Once again, if you had viewed @61 & 62, you would see how things are corrupt but on a larger scale in the center of our Federal Government. Do you care about that aspect ? If not, I seriously question your ability to connect the dots."

I'll remind you and your ilk how petty using the Koch Bros. as your boogeyman. Maybe you specifically haven't but a number of loud lefties who visit SP do.

Posted by KDS at January 28, 2013 07:06 PM
89. "Corruption" that you're proving through anecdotal evidence, not actual figures. Without that, you have no evidence that this would be only done by Democrats. And I'll be more than amused to hear how you plan to cut off the rights of the disabled to vote.

Now, just substitute 'gun violence' into your sentence, and 'gun owners' for Democraps. Then "I'll be more than amused to hear how you plan to cut off the rights" guaranteed to law abiding citizens.

Your game is fun, eh?

Posted by RagnarDanneskold at January 28, 2013 08:12 PM
90. Really, its the Democrats who are the pot calling the kettle black when they claim conservatives are the narrow minded reactionaries, who have no desire to compromise. In reality, the GOP has played into their hands and caved even when they were in the majority, which does not endear me to them much. My views are more libertarian.

Obama just gave an interview to the Republic and posed a veiled threat to Fox News and Rush Limbaugh. Here is an excerpt from this interview;

But what of his Republican opposition? That opposition, said Obama, has to be forced to embrace his positions:

"And I think if you talk privately to Democrats and Republicans, particularly those who have been around for a while, they long for the days when they could socialize and introduce bipartisan legislation and feel productive. So I don't think the issue is whether or not there are people of goodwill in either party that want to get something done. I think what we really have to do is change some of the incentive structures so that people feel liberated to pursue some common ground. One of the biggest factors is going to be how the media shapes debates. If a Republican member of Congress is not punished on Fox News or by Rush Limbaugh for working with a Democrat on a bill of common interest, then you'll see more of them doing it."

It sounds narcissistic, arrogant and ignorant at the same time. Fox News influences the Republicans - maybe Hannity, but not the rest of Fox news that's laughable. Limbaugh threatens Obama probably because he knows he has him figured out correctly as a rigid, ideologue who embraces Marxism and is a nasty piece of work (
Did I already say that George Soros also is ?) (I am not a fan of Limbaugh as he is a lightning rod and polarizing) LBJ and Nixon were nasty pieces of work too, but Obama is clearly more of a rigid statist ideologue than either of them. As the first president who has openly admitted he does not like the constitution as it is and would like to change it and the loud lefties wonder why we have the angst we do ? There you have it - why there is so much polarization these days.

Posted by KDS at January 28, 2013 09:37 PM
91. The whiny, bitter, sore losers here -- author of the post included -- give this liberal much amusement. To these fools, there's just no way their anti-immigrant, anti-choice, anti-woman, anti-poor, anti-science message could possibly be costing them election after election after election. It must be ACORN! Voter fraud! Birth certificate! George Soros! Conspiracy of all of the above!!1!

And, for that extra bit of fun, we have KDS -- of all people! -- ranting about "low-information voters," whilst claiming that a Jewish refugee from Nazism and Communism sympathizes with both. You just can't make this stuff up.

Posted by tensor at January 28, 2013 10:04 PM
92. If you have no case then throw mud: "The whiny, bitter, sore losers here -- author of the post included -- give this liberal much amusement. To these fools..."

Continue this elsewhere.

Posted by Ron at January 29, 2013 07:02 AM